Radically Genuine Podcast with Dr. Roger McFillin

[sean]: welcome to

[roger_mcfillin]: welcome

[sean]: the radically

[roger_mcfillin]: to the radically

[sean]: genuine

[roger_mcfillin]: genuine

[sean]: podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: podcast

[sean]: you can

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: find

[roger_mcfillin]: can

[sean]: me

[roger_mcfillin]: find

[sean]: dr

[roger_mcfillin]: me

[sean]: roger mchlnon

[roger_mcfillin]: roger

[sean]: twitter

[roger_mcfillin]: in on twitter

[sean]: at dr

[roger_mcfillin]: at

[sean]: mcthillan

[roger_mcfillin]: mcchillan

[sean]: getting into some

[roger_mcfillin]: getting

[sean]: really

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: interesting

[roger_mcfillin]: really interesting

[sean]: conversations

[roger_mcfillin]: conversations

[sean]: on twitter

[roger_mcfillin]: on twitter

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: the impact

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: impact

[sean]: our

[roger_mcfillin]: of our

[sean]: podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: podcast

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: somewhat far

[roger_mcfillin]: somewhat

[sean]: reaching

[roger_mcfillin]: far

[sean]: at

[roger_mcfillin]: reaching

[sean]: this point

[roger_mcfillin]: at this point

[sean]: and one of the

[roger_mcfillin]: one of the

[sean]: overarching

[roger_mcfillin]: overarching

[sean]: goals is

[roger_mcfillin]: goals

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: promote

[roger_mcfillin]: to promote

[sean]: awareness

[roger_mcfillin]: awareness

[sean]: and attention

[roger_mcfillin]: and attention

[sean]: support informed

[roger_mcfillin]: support

[sean]: consent

[roger_mcfillin]: informed consent

[sean]: whenever you're

[roger_mcfillin]: whenever

[sean]: taking

[roger_mcfillin]: you're

[sean]: any

[roger_mcfillin]: taking

[sean]: farmasuticale

[roger_mcfillin]: any farm suiticle

[sean]: had a

[roger_mcfillin]: had a

[sean]: few

[roger_mcfillin]: few

[sean]: podcasts

[roger_mcfillin]: podcasts

[sean]: recently

[roger_mcfillin]: recently

[sean]: where we talked

[roger_mcfillin]: where we

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: talked

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: of the

[roger_mcfillin]: some of the

[sean]: dubious

[roger_mcfillin]: dubious

[sean]: and fraudulent

[roger_mcfillin]: and fraudulent

[sean]: marketing

[roger_mcfillin]: marketing

[sean]: tactics

[roger_mcfillin]: tactics

[sean]: of the

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: pharmasutical

[roger_mcfillin]: the pharmasutical

[sean]: industry

[roger_mcfillin]: industry

[sean]: and how

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: many

[roger_mcfillin]: how many

[sean]: clients

[roger_mcfillin]: clients

[sean]: who have been

[roger_mcfillin]: who have

[sean]: taking

[roger_mcfillin]: been

[sean]: certain

[roger_mcfillin]: taking

[sean]: drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: certain

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs are

[sean]: assuming

[roger_mcfillin]: assuming

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: there is strong

[roger_mcfillin]: there is

[sean]: efficacy

[roger_mcfillin]: strong efficacy

[sean]: and safety

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: safety

[sean]: the drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: they're

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs that

[sean]: taking

[roger_mcfillin]: they're taking

[sean]: without

[roger_mcfillin]: without

[sean]: ing

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: much of a background

[roger_mcfillin]: much of a background

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: information

[sean]: on how

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: these drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: how these drugs

[sean]: came to

[roger_mcfillin]: came

[sean]: market

[roger_mcfillin]: to market

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: some of the

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: of the adverse

[sean]: consequences

[roger_mcfillin]: consequences

[sean]: of these drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: of these drugs

[sean]: so i do

[roger_mcfillin]: i do

[sean]: certainly

[roger_mcfillin]: certainly

[sean]: want

[roger_mcfillin]: want

[sean]: our audience

[roger_mcfillin]: our audience

[sean]: to kind

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: of go

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: back

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: go back

[sean]: listen

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: listen

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: to the

[sean]: couple of our

[roger_mcfillin]: couple

[sean]: previous

[roger_mcfillin]: of our previous

[sean]: podcasts

[roger_mcfillin]: podcasts

[sean]: where we

[roger_mcfillin]: where we

[sean]: high lighted

[roger_mcfillin]: high

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: lighted

[sean]: of this

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: issue

[roger_mcfillin]: of this issue

[sean]: but one of the

[roger_mcfillin]: but

[sean]: things

[roger_mcfillin]: one

[sean]: has

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: been

[roger_mcfillin]: the things has

[sean]: brought

[roger_mcfillin]: been

[sean]: to my

[roger_mcfillin]: brought

[sean]: attention

[roger_mcfillin]: to my attention

[sean]: and i've been

[roger_mcfillin]: and i've

[sean]: to be

[roger_mcfillin]: been

[sean]: honest

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: i've

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: been

[roger_mcfillin]: honest

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: i've

[sean]: bit

[roger_mcfillin]: been a

[sean]: hesitant

[roger_mcfillin]: bit hesitant

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: go in this

[roger_mcfillin]: go

[sean]: direction

[roger_mcfillin]: in this direction

[sean]: on our podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: on our podcast

[sean]: because i just

[roger_mcfillin]: because i

[sean]: needed

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: more

[roger_mcfillin]: needed more

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: information

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: luckily

[roger_mcfillin]: luckily

[sean]: i've

[roger_mcfillin]: i've

[sean]: a couple people

[roger_mcfillin]: a couple

[sean]: have reached

[roger_mcfillin]: of people have

[sean]: out

[roger_mcfillin]: reached

[sean]: to me

[roger_mcfillin]: out to

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: me

[sean]: talk

[roger_mcfillin]: to talk

[sean]: more about

[roger_mcfillin]: more

[sean]: a specific

[roger_mcfillin]: about a specific

[sean]: issue

[roger_mcfillin]: issue

[sean]: it's an

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: an adverse

[sean]: reaction

[roger_mcfillin]: reaction

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: commonly

[roger_mcfillin]: commonly

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed

[sean]: anti depressince

[roger_mcfillin]: anti depressence

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: r

[roger_mcfillin]: s r

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: s n r

[roger_mcfillin]: nrizednselective

[sean]: s what's an s n r selective
nor apenefrin

[roger_mcfillin]: nor apeneffrreuptake

[sean]: re uptake inhibit

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: similar

[roger_mcfillin]: similar

[sean]: in terms of n s s s
s r i in terms of what they're

[roger_mcfillin]: what there

[sean]: intended

[roger_mcfillin]: intended

[sean]: to use this

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: well the

[roger_mcfillin]: well the

[sean]: targeting

[roger_mcfillin]: targeting

[sean]: specific

[roger_mcfillin]: specific

[sean]: nero chemicals

[roger_mcfillin]: nero chemicals

[sean]: by

[roger_mcfillin]: by

[sean]: preventing

[yassie_pirani]: yah

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: preventing

[sean]: re uptake

[roger_mcfillin]: the re uptake

[sean]: in the cell

[roger_mcfillin]: in the

[sean]: and then

[roger_mcfillin]: cell

[sean]: flooding

[roger_mcfillin]: and and flooding

[sean]: the the nerves

[roger_mcfillin]: the nervssinaps

[sean]: an apse with that

[roger_mcfillin]: with that

[sean]: and so

[roger_mcfillin]: and so

[sean]: these two drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: these two drugs

[sean]: i mean those two

[roger_mcfillin]: those

[sean]: classes

[roger_mcfillin]: two classes

[sean]: of dogs

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs

[sean]: the most

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: commonly

[roger_mcfillin]: the most commonly

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed

[sean]: to anti depressant

[roger_mcfillin]: anti depressing

[sean]: and we know

[roger_mcfillin]: and we

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: know

[sean]: the conditions

[roger_mcfillin]: that the conditions

[sean]: in which

[roger_mcfillin]: in which

[sean]: these drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: ese

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: are prescribed

[sean]: extend way

[roger_mcfillin]: extend

[sean]: beyond

[roger_mcfillin]: way beyond

[sean]: just somebody

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: somebody

[sean]: a depressive

[roger_mcfillin]: in a depressive

[sean]: episode

[roger_mcfillin]: episode

[sean]: and so there

[roger_mcfillin]: and so

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: is a

[sean]: common

[roger_mcfillin]: common

[sean]: side effect

[roger_mcfillin]: side effect

[sean]: unfortunately

[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately

[sean]: i'm not even going

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: not

[sean]: call

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: going

[sean]: a side

[roger_mcfillin]: to call

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: a side

[sean]: i don't

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: even think

[roger_mcfillin]: i don't

[sean]: that's

[roger_mcfillin]: even think that's

[sean]: fair to

[roger_mcfillin]: fair

[sean]: call it

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: a side

[roger_mcfillin]: call

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: the side

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: it's

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: almost

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: like

[roger_mcfillin]: almost like

[sean]: under the assumption

[roger_mcfillin]: under the assumption

[sean]: that these drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: these drugs

[sean]: are highly

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: effective

[roger_mcfillin]: highly effective

[sean]: and then here's

[roger_mcfillin]: and then

[sean]: a side

[roger_mcfillin]: here's

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: a side

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: just have

[roger_mcfillin]: you just

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: have

[sean]: deal

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: deal

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: with and

[sean]: you know

[roger_mcfillin]: you know

[sean]: not

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: not

[sean]: certain

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: certain

[sean]: we have

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: data

[roger_mcfillin]: have that

[sean]: or that

[roger_mcfillin]: data

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: or that information

[sean]: so instead

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: i'm

[roger_mcfillin]: instead

[sean]: going to call

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm going

[sean]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: an

[roger_mcfillin]: call it

[sean]: adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: an adverse

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: or an adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: or advert

[sean]: consequence

[roger_mcfillin]: consequence

[sean]: to taking

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: taking

[sean]: drug

[roger_mcfillin]: the drug

[sean]: and it's

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: around

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: around

[sean]: disfunction

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual disfunction

[sean]: we're going to get

[roger_mcfillin]: we're

[sean]: into

[roger_mcfillin]: going to get into

[sean]: the weeds

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: weeds

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: on sexual

[sean]: disfunction

[roger_mcfillin]: disfunction

[sean]: it's it's disabling

[roger_mcfillin]: it's disabling

[sean]: it's impairing

[roger_mcfillin]: it's impairing

[sean]: and it's potentially

[roger_mcfillin]: and it's potentially

[sean]: could be something

[roger_mcfillin]: be something

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: occurs

[roger_mcfillin]: occurs

[sean]: even after

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: after

[sean]: stopped

[roger_mcfillin]: you stop

[sean]: the use of

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: use

[sean]: drug

[roger_mcfillin]: of the drug

[sean]: yes so

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: on today's

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: today's podcast

[sean]: i want to

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: welcome

[roger_mcfillin]: want to welcome

[sean]: two

[roger_mcfillin]: two

[sean]: advocates

[roger_mcfillin]: advocates

[sean]: who are

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: supporting

[roger_mcfillin]: are supporting

[sean]: awareness

[roger_mcfillin]: awareness

[sean]: in this

[roger_mcfillin]: in this

[sean]: research

[roger_mcfillin]: research

[sean]: is this

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: area

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: area that

[sean]: highly

[roger_mcfillin]: highly

[sean]: requires

[roger_mcfillin]: requires

[sean]: more research

[roger_mcfillin]: more research

[sean]: first is

[roger_mcfillin]: it

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: grey

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: she

[roger_mcfillin]: gran

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: she

[sean]: a medical

[roger_mcfillin]: is a medical

[sean]: at

[roger_mcfillin]: attis

[sean]: this using her

[roger_mcfillin]: using

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: her

[sean]: going personal

[roger_mcfillin]: going personal

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: experience

[sean]: of p

[roger_mcfillin]: of p

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: d

[roger_mcfillin]: s t

[sean]: that is post

[roger_mcfillin]: that is post

[sean]: s s r

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: i

[roger_mcfillin]: s r i

[sean]: sexual dis

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual

[sean]: function

[roger_mcfillin]: dis

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: function

[sean]: we're going

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: we're

[sean]: use

[roger_mcfillin]: going to use

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: p

[roger_mcfillin]: p

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: d

[roger_mcfillin]: s d

[sean]: today

[roger_mcfillin]: today

[sean]: her goal is

[roger_mcfillin]: her

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: goals

[sean]: raise awareness

[roger_mcfillin]: to raise

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: awareness

[sean]: the disorder

[roger_mcfillin]: of the disorder

[sean]: among

[roger_mcfillin]: among

[sean]: health care

[roger_mcfillin]: health

[sean]: professionals

[roger_mcfillin]: care professionals

[sean]: and the gray

[roger_mcfillin]: and the

[sean]: public

[roger_mcfillin]: greater public

[sean]: she is one

[roger_mcfillin]: she

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: the founders

[roger_mcfillin]: one of the founders

[sean]: of the registered

[roger_mcfillin]: of the registered

[sean]: non profit

[roger_mcfillin]: non profit

[sean]: canadian

[roger_mcfillin]: canadian

[sean]: post

[roger_mcfillin]: post

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: r

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: i sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: r i sexual

[sean]: function

[roger_mcfillin]: dis function

[sean]: society

[roger_mcfillin]: society

[sean]: she is

[roger_mcfillin]: she

[sean]: net

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: working

[roger_mcfillin]: net

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: working

[sean]: p

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: p

[sean]: s d

[roger_mcfillin]: s s d

[sean]: survivors

[roger_mcfillin]: survivors

[sean]: and sufferers

[roger_mcfillin]: and sufferers

[sean]: around the

[roger_mcfillin]: around

[sean]: world

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: world

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: and is

[sean]: working with

[roger_mcfillin]: working

[sean]: researchers

[roger_mcfillin]: with researchers

[sean]: at qu

[roger_mcfillin]: at

[sean]: university

[roger_mcfillin]: queen's university

[sean]: and the university

[roger_mcfillin]: and university

[sean]: of autoa

[roger_mcfillin]: of autoa

[sean]: to acquire

[roger_mcfillin]: to acquire

[sean]: more information

[roger_mcfillin]: more information

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: understudied

[roger_mcfillin]: under studied

[sean]: condition

[roger_mcfillin]: condition

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: welcome

[roger_mcfillin]: welcome

[sean]: to the

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: radically

[roger_mcfillin]: the radically

[sean]: genuine

[roger_mcfillin]: genuine

[sean]: podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: podcast

[emily_]: you very much drmchilland i'm glad to
be here

[sean]: before we

[roger_mcfillin]: before

[sean]: get to

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: get

[sean]: i also want

[roger_mcfillin]: i also

[sean]: to introduce

[roger_mcfillin]: want to introduce

[sean]: yaziprprani

[roger_mcfillin]: yazipapprani

[sean]: is a tramatherapist

[roger_mcfillin]: is a tramatherapist

[sean]: based in vancouver

[roger_mcfillin]: based in vancouver

[sean]: yasi is

[roger_mcfillin]: yaziis

[sean]: a register

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: clinical

[roger_mcfillin]: register

[sean]: councilor

[roger_mcfillin]: clinical

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: councillor

[sean]: the b

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: c

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: association

[roger_mcfillin]: b c association

[sean]: of clinical

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: councillors

[roger_mcfillin]: clinical councilor

[sean]: and a registered

[roger_mcfillin]: and a registered

[sean]: social worker

[roger_mcfillin]: social

[sean]: with the

[roger_mcfillin]: worker

[sean]: b

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: c

[roger_mcfillin]: the b

[sean]: college

[roger_mcfillin]: c

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: college

[sean]: social

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: workers

[roger_mcfillin]: social workers

[sean]: she works

[roger_mcfillin]: she

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: works

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: with people

[sean]: throughout the

[roger_mcfillin]: throughout the

[sean]: province

[roger_mcfillin]: province

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: british columbia

[roger_mcfillin]: british columbia

[sean]: canada

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: canada

[sean]: show an you've never been

[roger_mcfillin]: an you've

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: never been

[sean]: british

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: columbia

[roger_mcfillin]: french columbia

[sean]: multiple times

[roger_mcfillin]: multiple

[sean]: beautiful

[roger_mcfillin]: beautiful

[sean]: area

[roger_mcfillin]: area

[sean]: i love vancouver it is probably my
favorite

[roger_mcfillin]: favorite

[sean]: destination

[roger_mcfillin]: estin

[sean]: i

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: was there

[roger_mcfillin]: i was there

[sean]: doing multiple

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: advertising

[roger_mcfillin]: advertising

[sean]: commercial shoots

[roger_mcfillin]: comical she

[sean]: and i just fell in

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: love with

[roger_mcfillin]: fell

[sean]: the city so in her

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: range

[roger_mcfillin]: in her range

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: sexual and

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual

[sean]: reproductive

[roger_mcfillin]: and reproductive

[sean]: health concerns

[roger_mcfillin]: health concerns

[sean]: amongst

[roger_mcfillin]: amongst

[sean]: areas of her

[roger_mcfillin]: areas

[sean]: specialty

[roger_mcfillin]: of specialty

[sean]: she's worked

[roger_mcfillin]: she's

[sean]: many

[roger_mcfillin]: worked

[sean]: years

[roger_mcfillin]: many years

[sean]: in the areas

[roger_mcfillin]: in the

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: areas

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual

[sean]: mental

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: health

[roger_mcfillin]: mental

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: health

[sean]: works from

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: works

[sean]: tram

[roger_mcfillin]: from

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: the tram

[sean]: formed

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: anti

[roger_mcfillin]: formed

[sean]: oppressive

[roger_mcfillin]: anti oppressive

[sean]: and harm reduction

[roger_mcfillin]: and harm reduction

[sean]: approach

[roger_mcfillin]: of pro

[sean]: in her clinical

[roger_mcfillin]: in her clinical

[sean]: practice she

[roger_mcfillin]: practice

[sean]: specializes

[roger_mcfillin]: she specializes

[sean]: and supporting

[roger_mcfillin]: and supporting

[sean]: people who suffer

[roger_mcfillin]: people who

[sean]: from

[roger_mcfillin]: suffer from

[sean]: post

[roger_mcfillin]: post

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: r i

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: r i

[sean]: disfunction

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual dis function

[sean]: her work with

[roger_mcfillin]: her

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: work

[sean]: p

[roger_mcfillin]: with the

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: p

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: d

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: community

[roger_mcfillin]: t community

[sean]: uniquely

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: uniquely

[sean]: position

[roger_mcfillin]: position

[sean]: sort of educate

[roger_mcfillin]: sort of

[sean]: fellow

[roger_mcfillin]: educate

[sean]: health

[roger_mcfillin]: fellow

[sean]: care profess

[roger_mcfillin]: health care

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: rofessionals

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: in the public

[roger_mcfillin]: and the public

[sean]: on the real

[roger_mcfillin]: on the real

[sean]: impacts

[roger_mcfillin]: impacts

[sean]: of this disabling

[roger_mcfillin]: of this disabling

[sean]: condition

[roger_mcfillin]: condition

[sean]: i met with

[roger_mcfillin]: i met

[sean]: both

[roger_mcfillin]: with both

[sean]: yasi

[roger_mcfillin]: yasi

[sean]: and emily

[roger_mcfillin]: and emily

[sean]: before

[roger_mcfillin]: before

[sean]: this podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: this podcast

[sean]: just for

[roger_mcfillin]: just for

[sean]: a bit of a

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: pre

[roger_mcfillin]: bit

[sean]: dis

[roger_mcfillin]: of a

[sean]: cession

[roger_mcfillin]: discussion

[sean]: and they are

[roger_mcfillin]: they're

[sean]: both extremely

[roger_mcfillin]: extremely

[sean]: knowledgeable

[roger_mcfillin]: knowledgeable

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: very

[sean]: passionate

[roger_mcfillin]: passionate

[sean]: as welcome

[roger_mcfillin]: as you

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: welcome

[sean]: the radically

[roger_mcfillin]: to the

[sean]: genuine

[roger_mcfillin]: radically

[sean]: podcast

[roger_mcfillin]: genuine podcast

[yassie_pirani]: thank you so much it's great to
be here

[sean]: so let's just

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: start

[roger_mcfillin]: let's

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: just start

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: with emily

[sean]: i think

[roger_mcfillin]: i think

[sean]: the expected

[roger_mcfillin]: expected

[sean]: place to

[roger_mcfillin]: place

[sean]: start

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: start

[sean]: if you're

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: willing

[roger_mcfillin]: if you're willing

[sean]: is just

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: to share

[roger_mcfillin]: just to

[sean]: your

[roger_mcfillin]: share

[sean]: story

[roger_mcfillin]: your story

[sean]: and talk

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: talk

[sean]: your

[roger_mcfillin]: about your

[sean]: journey

[roger_mcfillin]: journey

[sean]: and what you

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: went

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: through

[roger_mcfillin]: went

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: through

[sean]: get

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: to this

[roger_mcfillin]: get

[sean]: place

[roger_mcfillin]: to this

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: place

[sean]: your career

[roger_mcfillin]: in your career

[emily_]: sure so when i was a teen
ager as many many teenagers do i suffered

[emily_]: from various what we might call mental
health problems but could so just be called

[emily_]: growing

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[emily_]: up you know

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: i often suffered from low moods

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[emily_]: i also struggled with body image i
had an eating disorder which caused me some

[emily_]: health issues for a little over

[roger_mcfillin]: an

[emily_]: a year um and when i was
seventeen years old at the recommendation of someifriends

[emily_]: of the family my parents took me
to talk to a psychiatrist and it was

[emily_]: a very kind of come table nonchalant
encounter i didn't have any negative experience with

[emily_]: the psychiatrist but she recommended that i
try s s

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: r and see if that improved my
my mental health you know i was just

[emily_]: about to be heading off to college
she thought it would kind of help ease

[emily_]: the transition um and it was treated
as something very very normal and very very

[emily_]: safe so i started on the s
s rise and i did feel a perceived

[emily_]: reduction in my symptoms the s s
r i was on was sitalapram and i

[emily_]: was on at thirty mile rams a
day which is a very moderate normal dose

[emily_]: for an s s r

[sean]: let me ask you a

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: question

[roger_mcfillin]: ask you

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: a question

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: initially

[roger_mcfillin]: you initially

[sean]: experienced

[roger_mcfillin]: experienced

[sean]: a reduction

[roger_mcfillin]: a reduction

[sean]: in what you

[roger_mcfillin]: in what you

[sean]: identified

[roger_mcfillin]: identified

[sean]: as symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: as symptoms

[sean]: what were the

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: reduction

[roger_mcfillin]: with the reduction

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: symptoms that

[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms

[sean]: you did

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: you did experience

[sean]: initially

[emily_]: i just

[roger_mcfillin]: initially

[emily_]: i felt calmer i found it easier
to concentrate i felt less intense negative emotion

[sean]: a

[emily_]: so i would say her description of
it smoothing the transition was accurate um

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: m but i

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: i stayed on it for several years
during my college years and i kept kind

[emily_]: of thinking well

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: i should go off at some

[roger_mcfillin]: ye

[emily_]: point but you know i i think
it's making my life easier and i hadn't

[emily_]: really been warned about any negative effects
so i i guess the accurate way to

[emily_]: describe it is i developed a psychological
dependency on them um

[sean]: let me ask you

[emily_]: but

[roger_mcfillin]: let

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: me ask

[sean]: questions

[roger_mcfillin]: you some questions

[sean]: because i

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: think

[roger_mcfillin]: i think

[sean]: your story

[roger_mcfillin]: your story

[sean]: is really

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: interesting

[roger_mcfillin]: really interesting

[sean]: and it's important

[roger_mcfillin]: and it's important

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: if our goal

[roger_mcfillin]: if our

[sean]: here

[roger_mcfillin]: goal

[sean]: is to

[roger_mcfillin]: here

[sean]: raise

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: awareness

[roger_mcfillin]: to raise awareness

[sean]: for health

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: care

[roger_mcfillin]: health

[sean]: professionals

[roger_mcfillin]: care professionals

[sean]: and those

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: those

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: who are

[sean]: potentially

[roger_mcfillin]: potentially

[sean]: prescribe

[roger_mcfillin]: prescribe

[sean]: these drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: these drugs

[sean]: there's

[roger_mcfillin]: there's

[sean]: a number of

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: things

[roger_mcfillin]: number

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: of things

[sean]: didn't

[roger_mcfillin]: that didn't

[sean]: happen

[roger_mcfillin]: happen

[sean]: for you

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: we would

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: hope

[roger_mcfillin]: we would

[sean]: would happen

[roger_mcfillin]: hope would

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: happen

[sean]: the future

[roger_mcfillin]: in the future

[sean]: so the first

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[emily_]: hm

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: thing

[roger_mcfillin]: first thing

[sean]: is that

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: were

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: not

[roger_mcfillin]: were not

[sean]: informed

[roger_mcfillin]: informed

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: any

[roger_mcfillin]: any

[sean]: potential

[roger_mcfillin]: potential

[sean]: adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: adverse

[sean]: consequences

[roger_mcfillin]: consequences

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: to taking

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: taking

[sean]: drug is

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: correct

[roger_mcfillin]: is that correct

[emily_]: the only side effects that were mentioned
was she said that i might feel some

[emily_]: nausea

[roger_mcfillin]: yes

[emily_]: when coming on or off the drug

[sean]: yeah

[emily_]: there were there was absolutely no mention
sexual dis function either long lasting or temporary

[emily_]: she did not bring that up in
any capacity at one later meeting with her

[emily_]: because i've been experiencing some reduction in
libido on the drug i asked her is

[emily_]: it normal to like have less sexual
desire on this medication i brought that up

[emily_]: to her as a teenage patient and
she said yes that's normal but it will

[emily_]: go away when you come off the
medication

[sean]: okay so

[roger_mcfillin]: okay

[sean]: the

[emily_]: so

[sean]: assumption

[roger_mcfillin]: so the assumption

[emily_]: i trusted

[sean]: of the

[emily_]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: health

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: care

[roger_mcfillin]: health

[sean]: professional

[roger_mcfillin]: care professional

[sean]: was that

[roger_mcfillin]: was

[sean]: that was

[roger_mcfillin]: that that

[sean]: possible

[roger_mcfillin]: was possible

[sean]: that it could

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: happen

[roger_mcfillin]: it could happen

[sean]: but it was

[roger_mcfillin]: but

[sean]: kind

[roger_mcfillin]: it was

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: kind of

[sean]: dismissed

[roger_mcfillin]: dismissed

[sean]: is not something

[roger_mcfillin]: is not

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: something

[sean]: could be

[roger_mcfillin]: that could

[sean]: serious

[roger_mcfillin]: be serious

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: lasting

[roger_mcfillin]: lasting

[sean]: so maybe

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: while

[roger_mcfillin]: maybe

[sean]: you're

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: while

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: you're

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: can

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: you could experience

[sean]: that but

[roger_mcfillin]: that but

[sean]: almost

[emily_]: yes

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: almost

[sean]: assumption

[roger_mcfillin]: the assumption

[sean]: would be

[roger_mcfillin]: would be

[sean]: once you

[roger_mcfillin]: once

[sean]: begin

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: begin

[sean]: taper

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: off

[roger_mcfillin]: taper

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: off

[sean]: and stop

[roger_mcfillin]: the drug

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: drug

[roger_mcfillin]: stuff the drug

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: year

[sean]: libido

[roger_mcfillin]: libido

[sean]: would return

[roger_mcfillin]: would return

[emily_]: yes and i do want to point
out that seventeen years old is right in

[emily_]: the middle of your sexual development it's
not a trivial thing it's an important part

[emily_]: of your life between ages seventeen and
your early twenties like the fact that kids

[emily_]: that age are being

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: prescribed drugs that have sexual side effects
even even if they were guaranteed to just

[emily_]: be temporary that still a big deal
that still needs to be brought up in

[emily_]: a clinical setting that still needs to
be talked about cause it's going to impact

[emily_]: their relationship it's going to impact their
development yeah

[sean]: good point

[roger_mcfillin]: good point

[emily_]: and it did i wasn't i hadn't
had a serious relationship at that point in

[emily_]: my life but i entered into london
college and it absolutely did impact my relationship

[emily_]: i just wasn't sexually bone ding and
experiencing sexuality in a normal way um and

[emily_]: i knew something was wrong so i
decided that it was time for me to

[emily_]: taper off the medication i accurately identified
i think this is the s s i'm

[emily_]: gonna try and come off this medication
now um so under the supervision of a

[emily_]: doctor i reduced thirty milligrams to fifteen
milligrams did that for a couple of months

[emily_]: and then i started i tapered down
to nothing over the course of two weeks

[emily_]: from fifteen nelograms um but during all
this tapering i was not experiencing

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: any return of libido

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: then it's just after finishing the taper
fully so just a few days after coming

[emily_]: off the medication entirely i woke up
one morning and i immediately knew something has

[emily_]: happened something is different something very that
has happened in my body there was kind

[emily_]: of this feeling of overall sluggishness and
lack of vitality but i immediately notice sort

[emily_]: of a sensation of coldness in my
my private parts in my volva so i

[emily_]: like reach down was like what's going
on nd i had lost all forms of

[emily_]: orogenous sensation that sexual sensation in my
genitals and they were less sensitive um to

[emily_]: the touch as well and you know
it was very frightening it was a very

[emily_]: extreme sudden night and day change i
realized as i went through that day in

[emily_]: the next couple of days i'm not
feeling any hint of arousal i'm not feeling

[emily_]: any hint of desire i'm not feeling
it's like a switch has gone off my

[emily_]: entire sexuality is shut down and i'm
not even feeling fully emotionally present i can't

[emily_]: really feel anything towards the guy i
was day and at the time you know

[emily_]: i felt nothing whatsoever towards him even
emotionally it's like i've been entirely deerodicized

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: so i got quite frightened and anxious
and i immediately made an appointment with my

[emily_]: doctor and i went to my doctor
and i was asking them about this and

[emily_]: all they could really say to me
was well give it some time you know

[emily_]: you might just be going through a
withdrawal they also said it could be the

[emily_]: return of your mental health problems you
know because you were coming off the s

[emily_]: s this could be a depressive

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: symptom but i knew that it could
not be a time of depression because depression

[emily_]: doesn't make your clitteres feel like your
knuckle depression

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[emily_]: doesn't make every bit of a raging

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[emily_]: a sensation in your entire body switch
off like a light i had experienced what

[emily_]: was diagnosis depression and it did not
feel anything like that

[emily_]: to summarize have there's been no change
in that condition for the last three years

[emily_]: i have been off the medication entirely

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: for three years

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: i am still completely deerodicized um and
i've tried lifestyle changes i've tried dietary changes

[emily_]: aver to exercise i've tried you know
anything any natural healing

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: that you expect i've tried those avenues
i've even tried some other medications to try

[emily_]: and correct it and they're just i
experienced brief relief or moderate relief actually on

[emily_]: and it seemed to sort of switch
it back partially but then that faded and

[emily_]: it ceased to have any improvement um
and now i'm back to square one being

[emily_]: completely a sexual so about two years
ago a year in having this i realized

[emily_]: i can't be silent about this something
has happened to me in connection with the

[emily_]: s s i had discovered online communities
where people were talking about exactly the same

[emily_]: symptoms that i was going through and
i also discovered the work of professor david

[emily_]: heale now he is a professor at
master university in ontario and he has been

[emily_]: working for many years to try and
bring light to post esisarisexual disfunction exactly what

[emily_]: i was experiencing and he'd been you
know advocating hard and trying to get attention

[emily_]: and research towards it and a lot
of it seemed to have fallen on deaf

[emily_]: ears from the medical community i saw
okay what's really needed here is patients themselves

[emily_]: who have experienced tees effects and need
to start coming forward and talking about it

[emily_]: there's a huge amount of shame and
fear around this subject um and someone's got

[emily_]: to be the one to stand up
and just be willing to admit this happened

[emily_]: to me and it needs to stop
happening to other people of course i would

[emily_]: love it if we could also find
research and found research and find treatment for

[emily_]: it but even if my advocacy the
only result is that i stop but more

[emily_]: teen agers from having their sexuality removed
that would be enough for me

[sean]: it's very brave

[roger_mcfillin]: very brave

[sean]: especially at

[roger_mcfillin]: specially

[sean]: a young age

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: emily how old are you now i'm
sorry

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[emily_]: i'm currently twenty six i was on
the medication from seventeen almost at eighteen to

[emily_]: age twenty three

[sean]: well unfortunately

[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately

[sean]: your

[roger_mcfillin]: here

[sean]: story isn't

[roger_mcfillin]: story

[sean]: unique

[roger_mcfillin]: isn't musique

[sean]: and it's really

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: important

[roger_mcfillin]: it's really important

[sean]: for us

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: maybe

[roger_mcfillin]: us

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: maybe to

[sean]: try to get some

[roger_mcfillin]: try

[sean]: understanding

[roger_mcfillin]: to get some understanding

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: what the prevalence

[roger_mcfillin]: what the prevalence

[sean]: rate of

[roger_mcfillin]: rate

[sean]: this condition

[roger_mcfillin]: of this condition

[sean]: is yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: as i want

[roger_mcfillin]: yea

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: bring you

[roger_mcfillin]: want to

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: bring

[sean]: here

[roger_mcfillin]: you in here

[sean]: are you aware

[roger_mcfillin]: are you aware

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: kind of the prevalence

[roger_mcfillin]: of the prevalence

[sean]: rate

[roger_mcfillin]: rate

[sean]: of

[yassie_pirani]: ah

[sean]: this kind

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: of disorder

[roger_mcfillin]: kind of disorder

[sean]: or condition

[roger_mcfillin]: or condition

[yassie_pirani]: ah so that's a really good question
so unfortunately we don't have data we have

[yassie_pirani]: a queen ten city is putting together
some qualitative research collecting patient experiences collecting stories

[yassie_pirani]: about the condition so that s going
to be a survey that's going to be

[yassie_pirani]: open for a while on bat and
then hopefully then will that will generate some

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: quantitative research but at this time it's
it's really a lot of anecdotal research and

[yassie_pirani]: qualitative research in that you see avail
well um and it's really really really challenging

[yassie_pirani]: because so many people probably have p
s s d and don't know so just

[yassie_pirani]: to kind of just briefly go ju
scribe sorry explain what p s is it

[yassie_pirani]: is because i don't think we've we've
done that exactly yet so even though it's

[yassie_pirani]: estimated to be were we actually really
don't know the percentage of people who will

[yassie_pirani]: take anti

[emily_]: hm

[yassie_pirani]: presence will develop p s s t
and so it can be it's a variety

[yassie_pirani]: of symptoms that can begin either during
or soon after stopping an anti de present

[yassie_pirani]: so up to six months after and
may persist for months years are indefinitely after

[yassie_pirani]: stopping the medication and so there's currently
no reliable treatment and the symptoms include so

[yassie_pirani]: reduced genital sensation or what we call
genital anesthesia for a lot of people explain

[yassie_pirani]: it as they went to the dentist
and the lido cane god put in the

[yassie_pirani]: wrong place

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: ye

[sean]: m

[yassie_pirani]: and never went away also erectile dis
function or decrease vaginal lubrication later inability orgasm

[yassie_pirani]: so anrgasmia pleasureless week or muted orgasms
decreased or absent libido reduced response to sexual

[yassie_pirani]: stimuli decreased or lack nocturnal erections premature
delayed ejaculation reduced nipple sensitivity or sensitivity an

[yassie_pirani]: other orogenous zones um a loss of
pnpeniland

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: clatoral size

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: and that's the sexual side and what's
which is becoming you know more i mean

[yassie_pirani]: that's been recognized the by m h
regulatory becoming recognized by regular tory bodies and

[yassie_pirani]: in the medical community what's not being
recognized is the other symptoms that often a

[yassie_pirani]: company p s s d so um
that's th there's sexual symptoms so it's kind

[yassie_pirani]: of

[emily_]: a

[yassie_pirani]: what past is called but then

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: there's emotional and cognitive issues on

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: the r really actually i mean

[emily_]: okay

[yassie_pirani]: all of it's very disabling but the
cognate

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: emotional issues i find my patients are
more disabling a sexual issues so those are

[yassie_pirani]: included reduced intensity of emotions so anhidonia
particularly rom antic and hidonia so feel ability

[yassie_pirani]: to feel romance but a lot of
people just feel generalized and hidoniaso in abel

[yassie_pirani]: inability to feel any form of pleasure
in life which is to not be able

[yassie_pirani]: to feel love and connection and bonding
and empathy my clients say just it really

[yassie_pirani]: makes them non human they really can't
participate and in relationships of any kind in

[yassie_pirani]: a meaningful way compromise memory for sleep
quality loss of creativity a lot of people

[yassie_pirani]: say you know they were once musicians
artists or painters they just that architecture

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: of their creative architecture of their brain
has been disrupted and

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: they just thought that there seems to
be some kind of connection with one sexual

[yassie_pirani]: sexual ity and creativity we seem to
find the capacity to dream at night time

[yassie_pirani]: a lot of people there just there
they no longer have dreams or imagination they

[yassie_pirani]: can't visualize anything in their heads any
more they can't talk their minds i um

[yassie_pirani]: and yeah brain fog cognitive slowing so
those symptoms are what we are really wanting

[yassie_pirani]: to bring attention to as well because
a lot of my clients will say it

[yassie_pirani]: should just be called post s s
r i cyndrum because the sexual umbrella is

[yassie_pirani]: just one but my experience over here
has not been reckon by that label so

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: that's

[emily_]: hm

[yassie_pirani]: that's a little description of exactly what
pst is and we don't know the prevalence

[yassie_pirani]: at this time

[sean]: what's interesting

[roger_mcfillin]: what's

[sean]: here

[roger_mcfillin]: interesting

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: here is

[sean]: it's the challenge

[roger_mcfillin]: it's the challenge

[sean]: because of

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: the diversity

[roger_mcfillin]: of the diversity

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: human

[roger_mcfillin]: human

[sean]: genetic

[roger_mcfillin]: genetic

[sean]: make up

[roger_mcfillin]: make up

[sean]: were so

[roger_mcfillin]: were

[sean]: different

[roger_mcfillin]: so different

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: one person

[roger_mcfillin]: one person

[sean]: might take

[roger_mcfillin]: might

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: take

[sean]: drug

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: and experience

[sean]: one thing

[roger_mcfillin]: one thing

[sean]: while another

[roger_mcfillin]: while another

[sean]: person might

[roger_mcfillin]: person

[sean]: take

[roger_mcfillin]: might

[sean]: the same

[roger_mcfillin]: take the

[sean]: drug

[roger_mcfillin]: same drug

[sean]: and not

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: not experience

[sean]: either that

[roger_mcfillin]: either

[sean]: benefit

[roger_mcfillin]: that benefit

[sean]: or any

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: any

[sean]: the negative

[roger_mcfillin]: of the negative

[sean]: consequences

[roger_mcfillin]: consequences

[sean]: with it

[roger_mcfillin]: with it

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[sean]: and i have

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: deep

[roger_mcfillin]: i have

[sean]: dived

[roger_mcfillin]: deep dived

[sean]: into

[roger_mcfillin]: into

[sean]: anti depressions

[roger_mcfillin]: anti de presence

[sean]: for the

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: past

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: couple

[roger_mcfillin]: past

[sean]: of years

[roger_mcfillin]: couple

[sean]: i

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: mean

[roger_mcfillin]: years i mean i've

[sean]: become so

[roger_mcfillin]: become

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: obsessive

[roger_mcfillin]: so obsessive

[sean]: about it

[roger_mcfillin]: about it

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: i want

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: want

[sean]: find

[roger_mcfillin]: to find

[sean]: out

[roger_mcfillin]: out

[sean]: those

[roger_mcfillin]: those

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: actually

[roger_mcfillin]: actually

[sean]: promote

[roger_mcfillin]: promote

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: so there

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: so there

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: out

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: there will

[roger_mcfillin]: out

[sean]: say

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: hey

[roger_mcfillin]: will

[sean]: it's

[roger_mcfillin]: say

[sean]: really

[roger_mcfillin]: hey it's

[sean]: helped

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: me

[roger_mcfillin]: help me

[sean]: and even

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: even emily

[sean]: here

[roger_mcfillin]: here

[sean]: recognize

[roger_mcfillin]: recognized

[sean]: as there was

[roger_mcfillin]: as there

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: was some

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: and i

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: try to make

[roger_mcfillin]: i try

[sean]: sense

[roger_mcfillin]: to make

[sean]: of that

[roger_mcfillin]: sense of that

[sean]: because it

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: really

[roger_mcfillin]: it

[sean]: seems

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: like

[roger_mcfillin]: seems

[sean]: it's actually

[roger_mcfillin]: like it's

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: actually

[sean]: small

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: percentage

[roger_mcfillin]: small percentage

[sean]: of people

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[yassie_pirani]: kay

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: and when

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: we compare

[roger_mcfillin]: when we compare

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: placebo

[roger_mcfillin]: to placebo

[sean]: there real

[roger_mcfillin]: there's

[sean]: controversy

[roger_mcfillin]: real controversy

[sean]: whether it

[roger_mcfillin]: whether it

[sean]: out performs

[roger_mcfillin]: out performs

[sean]: a placebo

[roger_mcfillin]: a placebo

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: at any

[roger_mcfillin]: at anyway

[sean]: in any meaningful

[roger_mcfillin]: in any meaningful

[sean]: way

[roger_mcfillin]: way

[sean]: but

[roger_mcfillin]: but

[sean]: what it is

[roger_mcfillin]: what it is

[sean]: it is

[roger_mcfillin]: it is

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: psycho active

[roger_mcfillin]: psycho

[sean]: substance

[roger_mcfillin]: active substance

[sean]: that is

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: going

[roger_mcfillin]: is going

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: alter

[roger_mcfillin]: alter

[sean]: your

[roger_mcfillin]: your

[sean]: cognitive

[roger_mcfillin]: cognitive

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: physiological

[roger_mcfillin]: physiological

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: states

[roger_mcfillin]: states

[sean]: and so

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: somebody

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: somebody

[sean]: might

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: might

[sean]: experiencing

[roger_mcfillin]: be experiencing

[sean]: intense

[roger_mcfillin]: intense

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: emotional

[sean]: pain

[roger_mcfillin]: pain

[sean]: or activity

[roger_mcfillin]: or re activity

[sean]: it's certainly

[roger_mcfillin]: it's certainly

[sean]: possible

[roger_mcfillin]: possible

[sean]: that some

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: some people

[sean]: might

[roger_mcfillin]: might

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: experience

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: an initial

[roger_mcfillin]: an initial

[sean]: positive

[roger_mcfillin]: positive

[sean]: response

[roger_mcfillin]: response

[sean]: to the dampening

[roger_mcfillin]: to the dampening

[sean]: of that

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: that emotional

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: experience

[sean]: whether we call

[roger_mcfillin]: whether

[sean]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: call it emotional

[sean]: numbing

[roger_mcfillin]: numbing

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: an emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: an emotional

[sean]: blond in

[roger_mcfillin]: blunting

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: that could

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: could be

[sean]: or a percentage

[roger_mcfillin]: or a percentage

[sean]: of people

[roger_mcfillin]: of people

[sean]: it

[yassie_pirani]: yes

[sean]: could be

[roger_mcfillin]: could

[sean]: interpreted

[roger_mcfillin]: be interpreted

[sean]: as something

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: something

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: quite

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: relieving

[roger_mcfillin]: quite relieving

[sean]: so there

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: may

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: may

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: benefit

[roger_mcfillin]: some benefit

[sean]: the question

[roger_mcfillin]: the question

[sean]: is always

[roger_mcfillin]: is always

[sean]: at what cost

[roger_mcfillin]: at what cost

[sean]: so if there

[roger_mcfillin]: so if

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: is a

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: emotional

[sean]: blunting

[roger_mcfillin]: blunting

[sean]: or physiological

[roger_mcfillin]: or physiological

[sean]: shifts or

[roger_mcfillin]: shifts

[sean]: changes

[roger_mcfillin]: or changes

[sean]: your reaction

[roger_mcfillin]: your reaction

[sean]: to emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: through emotional

[sean]: stimuli

[roger_mcfillin]: stimuli

[sean]: it would make

[roger_mcfillin]: would

[sean]: sense

[roger_mcfillin]: make

[sean]: that there

[roger_mcfillin]: sense

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: that there is

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: blunting

[roger_mcfillin]: blunting

[sean]: in other

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: ways

[roger_mcfillin]: other ways

[sean]: creativity

[roger_mcfillin]: creativity

[sean]: sexuality

[roger_mcfillin]: sexuality

[yassie_pirani]: ye

[sean]: vito

[roger_mcfillin]: b to

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[sean]: is that is

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: how

[roger_mcfillin]: is that how

[sean]: the two of

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: two

[sean]: kind

[roger_mcfillin]: of you

[sean]: of think

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: think of it

[sean]: as i think

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: i think

[sean]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: about it

[yassie_pirani]: yeah i a hundred per cent and
one thing that i

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: forgot to mention is a lot of
people just feel generally less tactile sensation all

[yassie_pirani]: over their body like their body is
numb they don't feel connected there's de personalization

[yassie_pirani]: and de realization people people experience and
just just a general lack of sensation like

[yassie_pirani]: they don't feel butterflies and they're got
any more that even they'll touch their skin

[yassie_pirani]: and have it's just it's just it's
just like somebody

[emily_]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: put a numbing jell all over their
body and people are so confused so there's

[yassie_pirani]: something deeply impacted in some people's nervous
system on and the emotions you know what

[yassie_pirani]: we're kind of coming to learn about
the connection of our motions and our nervous

[yassie_pirani]: system and how

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: of course then yeah if the drug
is kind of numbing some of what's going

[yassie_pirani]: on for people emotionally then there's physiological
numbing as well those

[sean]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: things are connected because we're

[sean]: here's

[roger_mcfillin]: here's

[sean]: here's

[roger_mcfillin]: here's

[sean]: i always made

[roger_mcfillin]: always

[sean]: the assumption

[roger_mcfillin]: make

[sean]: that a side effect

[roger_mcfillin]: it

[sean]: while you're on a

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: drug is while you're

[roger_mcfillin]: while you're

[sean]: on the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: and even if you

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: were

[roger_mcfillin]: if

[sean]: to read through

[roger_mcfillin]: red

[sean]: the list of side effects

[roger_mcfillin]: side of

[sean]: as you're taking

[roger_mcfillin]: you're

[sean]: a drug

[roger_mcfillin]: taking

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: may think i feeling any of these
side effects i never really

[roger_mcfillin]: never

[sean]: think

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: think about

[sean]: after

[roger_mcfillin]: after

[sean]: i am you know getting off

[roger_mcfillin]: getting

[sean]: the drug that there could be side
effects

[roger_mcfillin]: side

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: effects

[sean]: continue

[roger_mcfillin]: continue

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: show themselves

[roger_mcfillin]: show themselves

[sean]: when i'm no

[roger_mcfillin]: when

[sean]: longer

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: no

[sean]: taking

[roger_mcfillin]: longer picking

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: the drug

[sean]: so that makes

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: me think

[roger_mcfillin]: makes

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: me

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: think that

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: is very

[sean]: under reported

[roger_mcfillin]: under report

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[sean]: and most

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: most

[sean]: don't

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: even

[roger_mcfillin]: don't

[sean]: think

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: think about

[sean]: the drug

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: drug

[sean]: causing

[roger_mcfillin]: as causing

[sean]: this particle

[roger_mcfillin]: particular

[sean]: or side effect

[roger_mcfillin]: side

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: section

[yassie_pirani]: hundred

[sean]: are you

[yassie_pirani]: percent

[sean]: experiencing

[roger_mcfillin]: are you experiencing

[yassie_pirani]: hundred

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[yassie_pirani]: so many people would have no idea
that it's the medication and we just the

[yassie_pirani]: effects to people you know my clients
say like the damage to my brain and

[yassie_pirani]: nervous system

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: is so much further

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: than a side effect

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: and those are the people who can
really

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: link the drag two

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: to their symptoms but so many

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: people will have such a

[emily_]: right

[yassie_pirani]: range of symptoms it will be really
some for some people it's really mild and

[yassie_pirani]: some people it's absolutely

[roger_mcfillin]: ye

[yassie_pirani]: like an on off switch like emily
was describing some

[sean]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: people it's in between and so so
many people don't know to attribute their symptoms

[yassie_pirani]: to the drug so it's it's really
really really under probably under recognized under reported

[yassie_pirani]: um and it's like roger you're saying
it's it really

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: oh it's a trade

[emily_]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: off it's a trade off because they

[emily_]: m yes

[yassie_pirani]: people

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: you know will say p s s
d does not begin to compare to the

[yassie_pirani]: distress of the depression our anxiety that
they're originally seeking treatment for just goes so

[yassie_pirani]: much deeper likepssdrots your spirit and breaks
people and people choosing suicide over it and

[yassie_pirani]: that was so much more distressing

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: than the you know people are ending
up in the doctor's office for you know

[yassie_pirani]: losing a job or you know all
break up or all the things that are

[yassie_pirani]: painful

[emily_]: a

[yassie_pirani]: though it's life but we're medicalizing these
life experiences and and applying the bio medical

[yassie_pirani]: model a big way to mental health
and sort of dis easifying any heartbreak any

[yassie_pirani]: any any distress and not i think
it's just so important to kind of normalize

[yassie_pirani]: the ups and downs of life and

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: we're kind of just

[emily_]: i

[yassie_pirani]: in a system where people are just
getting put on me so

[emily_]: ye

[yassie_pirani]: easily without without

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: needful conversations about the risks involved such
as this

[sean]: somebody

[roger_mcfillin]: somebody

[sean]: tweeted

[roger_mcfillin]: tweated

[sean]: me recently

[roger_mcfillin]: me recently

[sean]: who stated

[roger_mcfillin]: who stated

[sean]: my depression

[roger_mcfillin]: my depression

[sean]: was

[roger_mcfillin]: was

[sean]: a vacation

[roger_mcfillin]: vacation

[sean]: at a five

[roger_mcfillin]: at a

[sean]: star

[roger_mcfillin]: five

[sean]: resort

[roger_mcfillin]: start

[sean]: compared

[roger_mcfillin]: compared

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: p s

[roger_mcfillin]: p

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: d

[roger_mcfillin]: d

[sean]: and the symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: and the symptoms

[sean]: i have to

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: exhibit

[roger_mcfillin]: have to exhibit

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: and so

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: i

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: think you

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: made

[roger_mcfillin]: think you

[sean]: an

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: made

[sean]: excellent

[roger_mcfillin]: an excellent

[sean]: point yes

[roger_mcfillin]: point

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: medicalization

[roger_mcfillin]: the medicalization

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: m living

[roger_mcfillin]: living

[sean]: and we

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: can get

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: into

[roger_mcfillin]: can get

[sean]: philosophy

[roger_mcfillin]: into philosophy

[sean]: of this

[roger_mcfillin]: at

[sean]: but

[roger_mcfillin]: this but

[sean]: obviously

[roger_mcfillin]: obviously

[sean]: the emotions

[roger_mcfillin]: the emotions

[sean]: even when

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: they're

[roger_mcfillin]: when

[sean]: negative

[roger_mcfillin]: they're negative

[sean]: and they're

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: intense

[roger_mcfillin]: they're intense

[sean]: are certainly

[roger_mcfillin]: are certainly

[sean]: sending us

[roger_mcfillin]: sending

[sean]: a message

[roger_mcfillin]: us a message

[sean]: they're serving

[roger_mcfillin]: they're

[sean]: us

[roger_mcfillin]: serving

[sean]: in some

[roger_mcfillin]: us in

[sean]: way

[roger_mcfillin]: some way

[sean]: whether

[yassie_pirani]: sir

[sean]: there

[roger_mcfillin]: whether

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: there is

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: problem

[roger_mcfillin]: problem

[sean]: we need to

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: face

[roger_mcfillin]: need to face

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: or loss we

[roger_mcfillin]: loss

[sean]: need

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: grieve

[roger_mcfillin]: need to grieve

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: or something

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: something

[sean]: we have

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: to do

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: have

[sean]: change

[roger_mcfillin]: to do to

[sean]: our

[roger_mcfillin]: change

[sean]: lives

[roger_mcfillin]: our lives

[sean]: there's also

[roger_mcfillin]: there's

[sean]: potentially

[roger_mcfillin]: also potentially

[sean]: something

[roger_mcfillin]: something

[sean]: else that's

[roger_mcfillin]: else

[sean]: going

[roger_mcfillin]: that's

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: going

[sean]: with us

[roger_mcfillin]: on with us

[sean]: medically

[roger_mcfillin]: medically

[sean]: that needs

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: to be

[roger_mcfillin]: needs to

[sean]: addressed

[roger_mcfillin]: be addressed

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: comment

[roger_mcfillin]: comment

[sean]: psychiatric

[roger_mcfillin]: psychiatric

[sean]: symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms

[sean]: can also

[roger_mcfillin]: can

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: also

[sean]: related

[emily_]: m

[roger_mcfillin]: be related

[sean]: to a number

[roger_mcfillin]: to a number

[sean]: of other potential

[roger_mcfillin]: other potential

[sean]: causes

[roger_mcfillin]: causes

[sean]: emily was

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: mentioning

[roger_mcfillin]: was mentioning

[sean]: struggling with

[roger_mcfillin]: struggling

[sean]: an eating

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: disorder

[roger_mcfillin]: an eating

[sean]: which

[roger_mcfillin]: disorder

[sean]: is an

[roger_mcfillin]: which

[sean]: area

[roger_mcfillin]: is an area

[sean]: of experts

[roger_mcfillin]: of experts

[sean]: from for me personally

[roger_mcfillin]: for me personally

[sean]: where i

[roger_mcfillin]: where

[sean]: work

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: worked

[sean]: clients

[roger_mcfillin]: with clients

[sean]: and they

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: exhibit

[roger_mcfillin]: they exhibit

[sean]: symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms

[sean]: that are psyche

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: at

[roger_mcfillin]: psychynatrican

[sean]: can nature

[roger_mcfillin]: nature

[sean]: depressed

[roger_mcfillin]: depressed

[sean]: mood

[roger_mcfillin]: mood

[sean]: anxiety

[roger_mcfillin]: anxiety

[sean]: and so forth

[roger_mcfillin]: and so forth

[sean]: and there's

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: a lot

[roger_mcfillin]: there's

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: nutrient

[roger_mcfillin]: lot of nutrient

[sean]: deficiencies

[roger_mcfillin]: deficiencies

[sean]: there

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: their body

[roger_mcfillin]: their body

[sean]: is

[emily_]: m

[sean]: sick

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: it's

[roger_mcfillin]: sick

[sean]: ill

[roger_mcfillin]: it's ill

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: and their brain

[roger_mcfillin]: end their brain

[sean]: is deprived

[roger_mcfillin]: is deprived

[sean]: of necessary

[roger_mcfillin]: of cessary

[sean]: fats

[roger_mcfillin]: fats

[sean]: and proteins

[roger_mcfillin]: and proteins

[sean]: for development

[roger_mcfillin]: for development

[sean]: and so forth

[roger_mcfillin]: and so

[sean]: so they

[roger_mcfillin]: forth

[sean]: exhibit

[roger_mcfillin]: so they exhibit

[sean]: depressed

[roger_mcfillin]: depressed

[sean]: mood and so

[roger_mcfillin]: mood

[sean]: forth

[roger_mcfillin]: and so

[sean]: but

[roger_mcfillin]: forth

[sean]: what the underlying

[roger_mcfillin]: the underlying

[sean]: problem is

[roger_mcfillin]: problem

[sean]: a starvation

[roger_mcfillin]: is a starvation

[sean]: and it presents

[roger_mcfillin]: and it

[sean]: itself

[roger_mcfillin]: presents itself

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: a psychiatric

[roger_mcfillin]: a psychiatric

[sean]: condition

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: condition

[sean]: so the idea

[roger_mcfillin]: so the

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: idea

[sean]: try

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: try to

[sean]: treat some

[roger_mcfillin]: treat

[sean]: of these

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: conditions

[roger_mcfillin]: of these conditions

[sean]: that have

[roger_mcfillin]: that have

[sean]: other causes

[roger_mcfillin]: other causes

[sean]: and their

[roger_mcfillin]: and their

[sean]: their purpose

[roger_mcfillin]: purpose

[sean]: at one

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: person's

[roger_mcfillin]: one person's

[sean]: life at

[roger_mcfillin]: life at

[sean]: a specific

[roger_mcfillin]: a specific

[sean]: time is

[roger_mcfillin]: time

[sean]: to try

[roger_mcfillin]: is to

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: try

[sean]: numb

[roger_mcfillin]: to numb

[sean]: or to alter

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: alter

[sean]: change

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: change

[sean]: physiological

[roger_mcfillin]: that physiological

[sean]: state

[roger_mcfillin]: state

[sean]: to assume

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: assume

[sean]: that has

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: that has

[sean]: sort

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: sort

[sean]: benefit

[roger_mcfillin]: of benefit

[sean]: think

[roger_mcfillin]: i think

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: is now

[sean]: unfortunately

[roger_mcfillin]: unfortunately

[sean]: a direction

[roger_mcfillin]: a direction

[sean]: where we've gone

[roger_mcfillin]: where we've got

[sean]: in society

[roger_mcfillin]: society

[sean]: that has

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: worse

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: an

[roger_mcfillin]: worse

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: than

[sean]: way that

[roger_mcfillin]: the way

[sean]: we

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: deal

[roger_mcfillin]: we deal

[sean]: with the struggles

[roger_mcfillin]: with the struggles

[emily_]: m

[sean]: living

[roger_mcfillin]: of living

[sean]: versus

[roger_mcfillin]: versus

[sean]: some advancement

[roger_mcfillin]: some advancement

[sean]: medically

[roger_mcfillin]: medically

[sean]: i want to bring

[roger_mcfillin]: i want

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: to bring

[sean]: back

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: back

[sean]: here

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: here

[sean]: she

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: may

[roger_mcfillin]: she may

[sean]: have some more

[roger_mcfillin]: have

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: some more information

[sean]: on this i know

[roger_mcfillin]: on this

[sean]: anecdotally

[roger_mcfillin]: i know anecdotally

[sean]: it is quite

[roger_mcfillin]: it is

[sean]: common

[roger_mcfillin]: quite common

[sean]: for my clients

[roger_mcfillin]: for my clients

[sean]: to report

[roger_mcfillin]: to report

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: changes

[roger_mcfillin]: changes

[sean]: in their sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: in their sexual

[sean]: functioning

[roger_mcfillin]: functioning

[sean]: decrease

[roger_mcfillin]: decrease

[sean]: in libido

[roger_mcfillin]: in libido

[sean]: um

[roger_mcfillin]: um

[sean]: changes

[roger_mcfillin]: changes

[sean]: in relationship

[roger_mcfillin]: in relationship

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: i know we don't

[roger_mcfillin]: i know

[sean]: have

[roger_mcfillin]: we don't

[sean]: any

[roger_mcfillin]: have

[sean]: like

[roger_mcfillin]: any

[sean]: clue or

[roger_mcfillin]: clear

[sean]: data

[roger_mcfillin]: data

[sean]: that might

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: suggest

[roger_mcfillin]: might suggest

[sean]: that we

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: know

[roger_mcfillin]: we know

[sean]: the percentage

[roger_mcfillin]: the percentage

[sean]: of people that

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: gonna experience

[roger_mcfillin]: that are going experience

[sean]: this adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: his adverse

[sean]: effect

[roger_mcfillin]: effect

[sean]: but in

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: your work

[roger_mcfillin]: in your

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: work

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: you getting

[roger_mcfillin]: are you

[sean]: an

[roger_mcfillin]: getting

[sean]: understanding

[roger_mcfillin]: an understanding

[sean]: of maybe how

[roger_mcfillin]: of maybe

[sean]: common

[roger_mcfillin]: how common

[sean]: something like

[roger_mcfillin]: something

[sean]: this is

[roger_mcfillin]: like this is

[emily_]: i think what we're dealing with is
anyway it's a lot more common than one

[emily_]: would think based on the amount of
literature there is so here's an example a

[emily_]: friend of mine i made through advocacy
who also suffers o p s d she

[emily_]: made a tender profile in her and
set it to her city and in it

[emily_]: she didn't show her face but she
described p s s and said i'm jus

[emily_]: looking to connect with other people out
there who might have it and she said

[emily_]: the the area for availability to ten
kilometers in either direction and within a few

[emily_]: days she was getting

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[emily_]: messages from people who lived within her
vicinity that had p

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: s s t that had come across
her profile so this is not a rare

[emily_]: thing there's someone in your town there's
someone on your block who has p

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: s s d

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[emily_]: it's probably far far more common than
is ever discussed just like many other forms

[emily_]: of sexual trauma

[yassie_pirani]: a

[emily_]: um and i just want to add
on to something that was speaking of earlier

[emily_]: about

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: accompanying symptoms so when i

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: was experiencing what was diagnosed as depression
in high school i could still finish high

[emily_]: school when i was on the medication
i was doing finding university when i developed

[emily_]: psisdifyou're coming off the medication i experienced
such emotional

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: trauma and also accompanying physical fatigue and
cognitive impacts

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[emily_]: like brain fag and inability to think
straight or carry a work load that i

[emily_]: had to ahletif university so that is
both a that also makes it more difficult

[emily_]: for people to address the problem of
p s s t and it makes it

[emily_]: more difficult for them to communicate to
the people around them because it comes with

[emily_]: these accompanying symptoms of deep deep fatigue
and lack of vitality so i think people

[emily_]: who acquire p s st often just
kind of slowly fading into the background

[sean]: if if someone does suspect they may

[roger_mcfillin]: they

[sean]: have

[roger_mcfillin]: made

[sean]: p s s d how do they

[roger_mcfillin]: how

[sean]: go

[roger_mcfillin]: did

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: it go

[sean]: trying

[roger_mcfillin]: out

[sean]: to confirm because maybe people

[roger_mcfillin]: maybe

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: on the fence and not understanding

[roger_mcfillin]: stand

[sean]: because awareness is so low what resources

[roger_mcfillin]: what is

[sean]: exist if someone even

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: go to a doctor could a doctor
properly

[roger_mcfillin]: perley

[sean]: confirm or

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: deny whether or not it's happening

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[emily_]: there is there has been recently published
an official diagnostic criteria and it was developed

[emily_]: by a wide range of medical professionals
from thirty nine different universities and i can

[emily_]: link that to you afterwards the problem
is that was developed in europe so this

[emily_]: is starting to gain more awareness and
recognition across the european union but especially in

[emily_]: america were really behind on awareness so
chances are when you go to a doctor

[emily_]: this is changing now but a lot
of the time they haven't even heard of

[emily_]: p s s so they

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: may just be genuinely in the dark
but what you're experiencing as much as the

[emily_]: patient is there's a tendency to suggs
that it's the mental health issue returning there's

[emily_]: also just often sort of a bold
face just denial that it's possible that these

[emily_]: effects can be the result of a
medication and so patients may leave the doctor's

[emily_]: office just saying well i guess it
can't be the medication it must be something

[emily_]: else and they may spend years trying
other things trying to fix other things on

[emily_]: not being able to confirm that it
is p s s t m generally we

[emily_]: would say if you have significant sexual
disfunction that was not present before taking the

[emily_]: medication and that lasts three to six
months after totally tapering off the medication we

[emily_]: would consider it to be p s
s t we're not able yet to confirm

[emily_]: bio markers there's no particular test that
can be done on someone that can confirm

[emily_]: that it's p s st a big
clue is if there is tact nothing in

[emily_]: there tall area because it's hard you
know if it's lowered libido then it could

[emily_]: maybe be other things tactialnumming after taking
an is quite distinct that's quite a distinct

[emily_]: discreet symptom

[sean]: hm

[emily_]: um there are some medical professionals who
are ware of past and are willing to

[emily_]: diagnose it and i can make i
can link you a list of them afterwards

[emily_]: as well

[sean]: great

[yassie_pirani]: i find it's really common for people
when they if they do gain the courage

[yassie_pirani]: to speak to their doctor which is
often a journey that i work with practice

[yassie_pirani]: folks feel so much

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: mistrust um they've gotten p s s
t it's because the health care professional didn't

[yassie_pirani]: have the equipment to warn them about
the risk so there's a lot of mistrust

[yassie_pirani]: already coming in when going into doctor's
office after that experience oftentimes people have spoken

[yassie_pirani]: to their families or communities and they're
shamed or minimize so the strength and courage

[yassie_pirani]: it takes to even go into a
doctor's office and say hey i think i

[yassie_pirani]: have p s s t his it's
immense and it's really common for people to

[yassie_pirani]: experience miniimization and dismissal of their pscpssdsymptoms
is a valid health care concern

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: which compound suffering

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: often the greatest contributor i find to
thoughts of suicide is well not actually the

[yassie_pirani]: injury itself often times it is but
the experience of having their concerns to messed

[yassie_pirani]: the denial of pit is a real
and serious health care issue creates the conditions

[yassie_pirani]: in which people too often blame themselves
and self blame can further distrep relationships self

[yassie_pirani]: worth and ident in sending people into
a spiral of shame and self loathing and

[yassie_pirani]: read it's reached completely retrometizing for people
to have to not be to not be

[yassie_pirani]: validated and believed on many people with
this sexual trauma from p s s t

[yassie_pirani]: drop parallels

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: to sexual assault made

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: to drop parallels to sexual assaults to
make sense of their experiences

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: as they feel strongly that a violence
been done to them and sexual violence framework

[yassie_pirani]: is useful for these suffers to understand
their experience particularly because of the power and

[yassie_pirani]: authority tiveferentials involved the dynamics around consent
and the shame experienced when speaking out sufferers

[yassie_pirani]: of p s just as survivors of
sexual other sexual violences need to be reminded

[yassie_pirani]: that their trauma is not their faults
and that they have the right to feel

[yassie_pirani]: rage devastation grief confusion and their emotion
related to their experience

[sean]: yeah yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[sean]: re you jumped

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: jumped

[sean]: there because

[roger_mcfillin]: in there

[sean]: i was

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: going to

[roger_mcfillin]: i was going

[sean]: go

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: down

[roger_mcfillin]: go

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: down

[sean]: lens

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: lends

[sean]: far as

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: asking

[roger_mcfillin]: far as

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: asking

[sean]: some questions

[roger_mcfillin]: you some questions

[sean]: because i know

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: you do

[roger_mcfillin]: i know

[sean]: work

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: from

[roger_mcfillin]: do

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: work

[sean]: trauma

[roger_mcfillin]: from a trauma

[sean]: and formed

[roger_mcfillin]: and formed

[sean]: perspective

[roger_mcfillin]: perspective

[sean]: and this

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: clearly

[roger_mcfillin]: this clearly

[sean]: to me represents

[roger_mcfillin]: to me represents

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: medical

[sean]: trauma

[roger_mcfillin]: trauma

[sean]: are you

[yassie_pirani]: hm

[roger_mcfillin]: are you

[sean]: do your

[roger_mcfillin]: do

[sean]: clients

[roger_mcfillin]: your clients

[sean]: that you're

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: working

[roger_mcfillin]: you're working

[sean]: with also

[roger_mcfillin]: with also

[sean]: exhibit

[roger_mcfillin]: exhibit

[sean]: symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: post dramatic

[roger_mcfillin]: post dramatic

[sean]: stress

[roger_mcfillin]: stress

[sean]: in a way

[roger_mcfillin]: in a

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: way that

[sean]: one would

[roger_mcfillin]: one would

[sean]: if they experienced

[roger_mcfillin]: if they experienced

[sean]: another dramatic

[roger_mcfillin]: another dramatic

[sean]: event

[roger_mcfillin]: event

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: absolutely absolutely and people are triggered

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: the thing that's so hard about this
is the triggers are everywhere i mean a

[yassie_pirani]: love song at the mall i mean
sex and relationships

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: and love it's everywhere i mean you
go to a friend's house and people are

[yassie_pirani]: talking about who dating and you know
who's hot and who you know like it's

[yassie_pirani]: just it's it's inescapable we don't realize
how much or how much our culture really

[yassie_pirani]: revolves around romance and sex until you
until you get p s s d and

[yassie_pirani]: you're triggered constantly because there's reminders of
what what's happened to you and what's been

[yassie_pirani]: stolen from you so it's really really
hard for people it's definitely a a lot

[yassie_pirani]: i mean most people say that the
p s s t has given them p

[yassie_pirani]: t s d yeh

[sean]: yeah i

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: work with

[roger_mcfillin]: i work

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: with sexual

[sean]: trauma

[roger_mcfillin]: trauma

[sean]: survivors

[roger_mcfillin]: survivors

[sean]: and you know as you're probably

[roger_mcfillin]: as you're

[sean]: well

[roger_mcfillin]: probably

[sean]: aware

[roger_mcfillin]: well aware

[sean]: that component

[roger_mcfillin]: that component

[sean]: of self

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: blame

[roger_mcfillin]: self blame

[sean]: is really

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: problematic

[roger_mcfillin]: really problematic

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: it does get

[roger_mcfillin]: it does

[sean]: in the

[roger_mcfillin]: get

[sean]: way

[roger_mcfillin]: in the

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: way

[sean]: being able

[roger_mcfillin]: of being

[sean]: to take

[roger_mcfillin]: able to

[sean]: steps

[roger_mcfillin]: take steps

[sean]: forward

[roger_mcfillin]: forward

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: it's really

[roger_mcfillin]: it's really

[sean]: even when we

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: look

[roger_mcfillin]: when

[sean]: into

[roger_mcfillin]: we look

[sean]: our literature

[roger_mcfillin]: into our literature

[sean]: it's really

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: a major

[roger_mcfillin]: really a

[sean]: factor

[roger_mcfillin]: major factor

[sean]: in the development

[roger_mcfillin]: in the development

[sean]: of p t

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: ptst

[sean]: d symptoms

[roger_mcfillin]: symptoms

[sean]: have to

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: imagine

[roger_mcfillin]: have to imagine

[sean]: when it comes

[roger_mcfillin]: when it comes

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: turning

[roger_mcfillin]: turning

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: s s r eyes

[roger_mcfillin]: our

[sean]: and then

[roger_mcfillin]: eyes

[sean]: developing

[roger_mcfillin]: and then de

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: think

[sean]: condition

[roger_mcfillin]: is condition

[sean]: self blame

[roger_mcfillin]: self blame

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: got to be

[roger_mcfillin]: got to be

[sean]: one of the

[roger_mcfillin]: one

[sean]: challenges

[roger_mcfillin]: of the challenges

[sean]: that you

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: face

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: face

[sean]: being able

[roger_mcfillin]: and being

[sean]: to support

[roger_mcfillin]: able to support

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: clinically

[roger_mcfillin]: clinically

[yassie_pirani]: yeah yeah it's massive because it's really
really challenging for people to find people in

[yassie_pirani]: their network to validate their experience yea
people do not get that it's hard to

[yassie_pirani]: find people to really recognize the depth
of the

[emily_]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: violence that has happened and to um
to remind people that it's not their fault

[yassie_pirani]: and that and that they have nothing
to be ashamed about and that that you

[yassie_pirani]: know they shouldn't be blaming themselves because
it's so it's so i can think of

[yassie_pirani]: a more stigmatized health care condition first
you have to tell your community whoever you

[yassie_pirani]: are leaning to for support first you
have to say that you are on psychiatric

[yassie_pirani]: medications which carries stigma and then you
have to say that you have been chemically

[yassie_pirani]: castrated essentially um so the intersection of
those reality it makes it extremely difficult for

[yassie_pirani]: people to speak out and get the
support they need from their families from their

[yassie_pirani]: communities and because people haven't heard of
p s s t it's just it's so

[yassie_pirani]: often minimized as an issue it's really
rare for people i find to find somebody

[yassie_pirani]: in their life to just say wow
that you know i don't know a lot

[yassie_pirani]: about that let me learn more about
your experience a lot of ople really don't

[yassie_pirani]: want to acknowledge that this is real
because it's so confronting to the status quote

[yassie_pirani]: of how we asses an treat people
with mental health issues and there's a lot

[yassie_pirani]: of it's there's a lot of he
a nuance that needs to be part of

[yassie_pirani]: the discussion when we're bringing light to
the risks of s s r is a

[yassie_pirani]: lot of people who are on the
medication do

[yassie_pirani]: do you feel attacked when the drugs
are being critigued and so people who are

[yassie_pirani]: crutiguing the medicationsum

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: we're trying to have more robust conversations
about efficacy and safety can be kind of

[yassie_pirani]: just put into a camp of conspire
like oh your conspiracy theorist kind of thing

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: emily say something

[emily_]: yeah i was going to just completely
concur that people who are currently on the

[emily_]: medication

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: they have a tendency to get defensive
when we're just talking about the

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: long term effects that we've experienced i
think they experience it is some kind of

[emily_]: attack on their choices and i'm not
looking to take choice away from people i'm

[emily_]: actually e trying to enable them ormed
choice

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: and so too

[sean]: yeah

[emily_]: like we're not trying to make people
feel ashamed for taking medication we just want

[emily_]: people to go into that knowing what
they are taking knowing more about what they're

[emily_]: putting in their body and what the
potential lunt consequences of it are they have

[emily_]: a right to know that

[sean]: good

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[sean]: point

[emily_]: um

[roger_mcfillin]: point

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: i think

[sean]: um

[yassie_pirani]: lost

[roger_mcfillin]: um

[yassie_pirani]: sorry

[sean]: sorry

[roger_mcfillin]: sorry

[sean]: red yasi

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[yassie_pirani]: so to say a lot of people
feel pressure to kind of tone down the

[yassie_pirani]: impact of this on their lives because
of due to the stigma against speaking frankly

[yassie_pirani]: about sexuality and the taboo of critics
sing mental health medication in any way um

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: so yeah that just really really really
complicates things

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: agree and

[roger_mcfillin]: three

[sean]: i think

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: all

[roger_mcfillin]: think

[sean]: ties

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: into the under reporting

[roger_mcfillin]: under

[sean]: of this this effect yeah it's really

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah it's

[sean]: important

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: important because

[sean]: this isn't

[roger_mcfillin]: this isn't

[sean]: about pill

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: shaming

[roger_mcfillin]: pill

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: steaming

[sean]: is about

[roger_mcfillin]: this is

[sean]: providing

[roger_mcfillin]: about providing

[sean]: informed

[roger_mcfillin]: informed

[sean]: consent

[roger_mcfillin]: consent

[sean]: you know

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: know

[sean]: having people

[roger_mcfillin]: having people

[sean]: be able

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: able

[sean]: consent

[roger_mcfillin]: to consent

[sean]: to the medical

[roger_mcfillin]: to the medical

[sean]: treatment

[roger_mcfillin]: treatment

[sean]: that they choose

[roger_mcfillin]: that they

[sean]: by

[roger_mcfillin]: choose

[sean]: getting

[roger_mcfillin]: by getting

[sean]: all the

[roger_mcfillin]: all

[sean]: available

[roger_mcfillin]: the available

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: information

[sean]: i feel like sometimes

[roger_mcfillin]: i feel like

[sean]: we're

[roger_mcfillin]: sometimes

[sean]: behind

[roger_mcfillin]: we're

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: behind

[sean]: iron

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: curtain

[roger_mcfillin]: iron curtain

[sean]: here in the

[roger_mcfillin]: here

[sean]: western

[roger_mcfillin]: in the western

[sean]: world

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: world

[sean]: when it

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: comes

[roger_mcfillin]: when it

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: comes to

[sean]: adequate information

[roger_mcfillin]: out of information

[sean]: and when

[emily_]: a

[sean]: you

[emily_]: great

[roger_mcfillin]: when

[sean]: talk

[emily_]: way to

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[emily_]: put

[sean]: eighty

[roger_mcfillin]: talk

[emily_]: it

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: per cent

[roger_mcfillin]: eighty

[sean]: of these

[roger_mcfillin]: per

[sean]: drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: cent of these

[sean]: being

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: being prescribed

[sean]: in primary

[roger_mcfillin]: in primary

[sean]: care settings

[roger_mcfillin]: care settings

[sean]: they are getting

[roger_mcfillin]: they are getting

[sean]: infultrated

[roger_mcfillin]: infultrated

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: parma data

[roger_mcfillin]: parma data

[sean]: and the

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: and the

[sean]: continuing

[roger_mcfillin]: continuing

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: medical

[sean]: educate

[roger_mcfillin]: education

[sean]: and credits are

[roger_mcfillin]: credits

[sean]: often

[roger_mcfillin]: are often

[sean]: sponsored

[roger_mcfillin]: sponsored

[sean]: by the

[roger_mcfillin]: by

[sean]: parmasutical

[emily_]: m

[roger_mcfillin]: the parmasutical

[sean]: industry

[roger_mcfillin]: industry

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: what has

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: to happen

[roger_mcfillin]: has to

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: happen

[sean]: it has to

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: it

[sean]: these

[roger_mcfillin]: has

[sean]: grass

[roger_mcfillin]: to be these

[sean]: roots

[roger_mcfillin]: grass

[sean]: efforts

[roger_mcfillin]: roots efforts

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: organizations

[roger_mcfillin]: organizations

[emily_]: m

[sean]: like

[roger_mcfillin]: like

[sean]: m p

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: p

[sean]: s d

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: canada

[roger_mcfillin]: s t canada

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: others

[roger_mcfillin]: others

[sean]: who trying

[roger_mcfillin]: who are

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: trying

[sean]: bring

[roger_mcfillin]: to bring

[sean]: awareness

[roger_mcfillin]: awareness

[sean]: and attention

[roger_mcfillin]: and intention

[sean]: through the

[roger_mcfillin]: through

[sean]: stories

[roger_mcfillin]: the stories

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: all the

[roger_mcfillin]: all

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: the information

[sean]: and try to

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: fund

[roger_mcfillin]: try

[sean]: themselves

[roger_mcfillin]: to find themselves

[sean]: some some way of

[roger_mcfillin]: some

[sean]: gathering

[roger_mcfillin]: way of

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: gathering

[sean]: data

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: data

[sean]: it's just

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: not

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: going

[roger_mcfillin]: not

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: going

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: to be

[sean]: economically

[roger_mcfillin]: economically

[sean]: motivated

[roger_mcfillin]: motivated

[sean]: on on

[roger_mcfillin]: on

[sean]: from the far

[roger_mcfillin]: from

[sean]: masgitleinjury

[roger_mcfillin]: the farm a super

[sean]: industry or the

[roger_mcfillin]: or the

[sean]: medical authority

[roger_mcfillin]: medical authority

[sean]: i feel like

[roger_mcfillin]: i feel like

[sean]: we are in

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: in a

[sean]: challenging

[roger_mcfillin]: very challenging

[sean]: place

[roger_mcfillin]: place

[sean]: because these

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: these

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: widely

[roger_mcfillin]: so widely

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed

[sean]: it's

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: difficult

[roger_mcfillin]: very difficult

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: our

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: medical

[sean]: professional

[roger_mcfillin]: professional

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: really face

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: face

[sean]: accept

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: accept

[sean]: fully

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: because

[roger_mcfillin]: fully

[sean]: they're

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: they're so

[sean]: complicit

[roger_mcfillin]: complicit

[sean]: in this

[roger_mcfillin]: in this

[yassie_pirani]: m

[sean]: because they

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: they

[sean]: prescribing

[roger_mcfillin]: are prescribing

[sean]: them

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: them

[sean]: without

[roger_mcfillin]: without

[sean]: full understanding

[roger_mcfillin]: full understanding

[sean]: of what the

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: effects

[roger_mcfillin]: what the effects

[sean]: are which

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: leads

[roger_mcfillin]: which

[sean]: to my

[roger_mcfillin]: leads

[sean]: next

[roger_mcfillin]: to my next

[sean]: question

[roger_mcfillin]: question

[sean]: because emily

[roger_mcfillin]: because

[sean]: touched

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: touched

[sean]: this earlier

[roger_mcfillin]: on this earlier

[sean]: my concern

[roger_mcfillin]: my concern

[sean]: is they're

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: so

[roger_mcfillin]: there so

[sean]: frequently

[roger_mcfillin]: frequently

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: prescribed

[sean]: off label

[roger_mcfillin]: off label

[sean]: and they're experimental

[roger_mcfillin]: and they're experimental

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: young

[roger_mcfillin]: young

[sean]: developing

[roger_mcfillin]: developing

[sean]: children

[roger_mcfillin]: children

[sean]: and teen agers

[roger_mcfillin]: and teen agers

[sean]: emily mentioned

[roger_mcfillin]: emily mentioned

[sean]: how

[roger_mcfillin]: how

[sean]: how valuable

[roger_mcfillin]: how valuable

[sean]: and important

[roger_mcfillin]: and important

[sean]: the development

[roger_mcfillin]: the development

[sean]: this period

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: period

[sean]: development

[roger_mcfillin]: in development

[sean]: is for

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: continued

[roger_mcfillin]: for continued

[sean]: sexuality

[roger_mcfillin]: sexuality

[sean]: understanding your

[roger_mcfillin]: standing

[sean]: sexuality

[roger_mcfillin]: your sexuality

[sean]: your experience

[roger_mcfillin]: or experience

[sean]: obviously

[roger_mcfillin]: obviously

[sean]: it's a it's a time

[roger_mcfillin]: a time

[sean]: in development

[roger_mcfillin]: in development

[sean]: where we're

[roger_mcfillin]: where

[sean]: just

[roger_mcfillin]: we're

[sean]: kind

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: bala

[roger_mcfillin]: of by

[sean]: jically

[roger_mcfillin]: a jac

[sean]: kind of

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: frame

[roger_mcfillin]: of frame

[sean]: to reproduce

[roger_mcfillin]: to reproduce

[sean]: so there's

[roger_mcfillin]: so there's

[sean]: intense

[roger_mcfillin]: intense

[sean]: emotions

[roger_mcfillin]: emotions

[sean]: and hormonal

[roger_mcfillin]: and hormonal

[sean]: reactions

[roger_mcfillin]: reactions

[sean]: and responses

[roger_mcfillin]: and responses

[sean]: that occurred

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: during

[roger_mcfillin]: occurred

[sean]: this developmental

[roger_mcfillin]: during this developmental

[sean]: period

[roger_mcfillin]: period

[sean]: and what

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: i'm

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: seeing

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm seeing

[sean]: and in

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: contact

[roger_mcfillin]: in contact

[sean]: with people

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: around

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: around

[sean]: world

[roger_mcfillin]: the world

[sean]: we

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: see this

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: developing

[roger_mcfillin]: see this developing

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: movement

[roger_mcfillin]: movement

[sean]: around

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: around

[sean]: identifying

[roger_mcfillin]: identifying

[sean]: as a

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: a sexual

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: there so

[roger_mcfillin]: there are

[sean]: many

[roger_mcfillin]: so many

[sean]: young people

[roger_mcfillin]: young people

[sean]: that are being

[roger_mcfillin]: that are

[sean]: prescribed

[roger_mcfillin]: being prescribed

[sean]: s s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: r

[roger_mcfillin]: s r

[sean]: is

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: in particular

[roger_mcfillin]: in particular

[sean]: more so

[roger_mcfillin]: more so

[sean]: adolescent

[roger_mcfillin]: lessen

[sean]: females

[roger_mcfillin]: males

[sean]: i'm really

[roger_mcfillin]: that i'm

[sean]: concerned

[roger_mcfillin]: really concerned

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: that the drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: themselves

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs themselves

[sean]: could be

[roger_mcfillin]: could be

[sean]: in some

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: way

[roger_mcfillin]: some way

[sean]: um

[roger_mcfillin]: um

[sean]: impeding

[roger_mcfillin]: impeding

[sean]: normal

[roger_mcfillin]: normal

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: sexual

[sean]: development

[roger_mcfillin]: development

[sean]: and understanding

[roger_mcfillin]: and understanding

[sean]: you know who

[roger_mcfillin]: you know

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: tracted

[roger_mcfillin]: are attracted

[sean]: to or what

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[emily_]: m

[sean]: experience

[roger_mcfillin]: what you experience

[sean]: or experiencing

[roger_mcfillin]: or experiencing

[sean]: normal

[roger_mcfillin]: normal

[emily_]: h

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: actual

[sean]: functioning

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: functioning

[sean]: that would

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: would be

[sean]: exhibited

[roger_mcfillin]: exhibited

[sean]: that age

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: range

[roger_mcfillin]: age range

[sean]: do we have any

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: have any information

[sean]: or even just

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: your

[roger_mcfillin]: just

[sean]: thoughts

[roger_mcfillin]: to your thoughts

[sean]: is this

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: rise

[roger_mcfillin]: this

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: rise

[sean]: identi

[roger_mcfillin]: and identifying

[sean]: ying as a

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: a sexual

[sean]: could it be potentially

[roger_mcfillin]: could be potentially

[sean]: linked

[roger_mcfillin]: linked

[sean]: to the

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: rise

[roger_mcfillin]: the rise

[sean]: and drugs

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: drugs

[sean]: we're giving

[roger_mcfillin]: that we're

[sean]: these

[roger_mcfillin]: giving these

[sean]: young developing

[roger_mcfillin]: young developing

[sean]: teen agers

[roger_mcfillin]: teenagers

[emily_]: ye i think that's a very very
important question obviously i don't have any definitive

[emily_]: answer on that because it hasn't been
studied

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: it hasn't been properly studied why we're
seeing this a sexual

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[emily_]: movement i think it's it's always a
possibility that some people are that way naturally

[emily_]: but when you have drugs being commonly
prescribed to millions of people in canada alone

[emily_]: that we know can interfere with sexual
develop and m this is obviously going to

[emily_]: be having some kind of systemic impact
and i think that there is just such

[emily_]: a taboo over examining that impact that
it could be causing lots of things not

[emily_]: many effects that we can't confirm so
personally it would not surprise me if a

[emily_]: lot of the people who identifies a
sexual or or at least some of them

[emily_]: had an interrupted sexual development as a
result of psychiatric medication i do personally know

[emily_]: i mean i mean at this point
i've talked to hundreds of people with p

[emily_]: s s t i've read the posts
of many more and i do have personally

[emily_]: spoken to people who were prescribed rise
at age eleven or age twelve and they

[emily_]: just never experienced normal what they would
describe as normal sexual development from that point

[emily_]: onwards so i do know i have
spoken directly to people who are what society

[emily_]: would deem sexual who personally attribute their
sexuality to psychiatric medication particularly s s r

[emily_]: is

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: so it definitely is something that's happening
what what percentage of those people what percentage

[emily_]: of people who identify as a sexual
are affected by arise what percentage element has

[emily_]: nothing to do with that we don't
have that information

[yassie_pirani]: it's really difficult because with people who
have p s s d on the onset

[roger_mcfillin]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: of pssdouknoas adults the

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: have a base line to compare to
be you were robbed of your sexuality before

[yassie_pirani]: you had the capacity to develop your

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: sexuality as

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: as you know can happen and i
have clients who know the r these medications

[yassie_pirani]: obviously the symptom really ranges but i
mean i have some clients who they do

[yassie_pirani]: have their romantic attraction and arouse but
their genitals are numb and they have norgasmea

[yassie_pirani]: and they have they've been diagnosed p
c there's no other reason why they would

[yassie_pirani]: have those symptoms

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: so there are there are very clearly
impacts develop mentally too somebody's body sexually by

[yassie_pirani]: these medications and so any range of
those symptoms can impact samedis sexual response

[emily_]: right

[yassie_pirani]: system and identity development that correlates with
what has or hasn't been able to develop

[yassie_pirani]: sexually so i mean it only makes
sense we we we don't know obviously we

[yassie_pirani]: don't have numbers we don't have data
we desperately need more data of all kinds

[yassie_pirani]: of about p s s d but
yeah for when i see my clinical practice

[yassie_pirani]: it for or would makes sense that
that is a part of the movement that

[yassie_pirani]: we're seeing

[emily_]: and while there has been not the
early enough study on this and there's much

[emily_]: much more required there has been one
very

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: interesting paper that was published in twenty
twenty in the journal of sexual medicine it

[emily_]: is by tyranny laurens ph d and
it's titled antidepressent use during development may impair

[emily_]: women's sexual desire and adulthood

[sean]: m

[emily_]: and this is one of the this
is this is i think should be a

[emily_]: jumping off point for more studies

[yassie_pirani]: m

[emily_]: um the i'll read you the introduction
here is that okay

[sean]: please

[roger_mcfillin]: please

[emily_]: it says although antidepressents are well known
because sexual side effects and adults the long

[emily_]: term effects of anti depressant use during
development on adult sexual adult sexual function is

[emily_]: unknown the aim of the stuf is
to explore differences in sexual desire and sexual

[emily_]: behavior between adults who did versus did
not use antidepressince during childhood methods an online

[emily_]: survey of six hundred and ten young
adults who were sixty six percent women assessed

[emily_]: childhood and current mental health and use
of anti depressence and other psychiatric medications before

[emily_]: the age of sixteen and currently partnered
and solitary sexual desire and frequency of masturbation

[emily_]: and partner sexual activity and presents were
coded into either selective sara tone and reupticeinhibitors

[emily_]: or other non s s antidepressente and
here are the results for women childhood s

[emily_]: s r use was associated with significantly
lower sexual desire desire for an attractive other

[emily_]: and frequency of masturbation this was true
even when controlling for childhood mental health concerns

[emily_]: current mental health and current anti depressant
use and i will happily link you that

[emily_]: study because i think it's really intrig
in place to start and we should be

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[emily_]: umreplicating that on a much much wider
level

[yassie_pirani]: and rodent studies show that the sexual
development sorry sexual basically mirror all of that

[yassie_pirani]: in what you shared emily and there's
a lot of rodents more rodent studies so

[yassie_pirani]: i mean we just we need more
research

[sean]: i'll include a link

[roger_mcfillin]: includally

[sean]: to that study in the show summary
yeah an

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[sean]: emily

[roger_mcfillin]: mile

[sean]: i am

[roger_mcfillin]: i am

[sean]: interested

[roger_mcfillin]: interested

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: hoping

[roger_mcfillin]: coping

[sean]: the clinical

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: work

[roger_mcfillin]: clinical

[sean]: that's

[roger_mcfillin]: work

[sean]: done

[roger_mcfillin]: that's done

[sean]: how you approach

[roger_mcfillin]: how you approach

[sean]: your life

[roger_mcfillin]: your life

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: the clients

[roger_mcfillin]: the clients

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: are suffering

[roger_mcfillin]: are suffering

[sean]: from this

[roger_mcfillin]: from

[sean]: how they

[roger_mcfillin]: how they

[sean]: come to

[roger_mcfillin]: come

[sean]: some acceptance

[roger_mcfillin]: to some acceptance

[sean]: and how they

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: cope

[roger_mcfillin]: how they

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: cope

[sean]: create

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: a life

[roger_mcfillin]: create a life

[sean]: value

[roger_mcfillin]: value

[sean]: purpose one that's

[roger_mcfillin]: one that's

[sean]: worth living

[roger_mcfillin]: worth living

[sean]: i'm interested

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm interested

[sean]: to know

[roger_mcfillin]: to know

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: intimate relationships

[roger_mcfillin]: intimate relationships

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: with their partners

[roger_mcfillin]: with their partners

[sean]: how they

[roger_mcfillin]: how

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: they're

[sean]: able to

[roger_mcfillin]: able

[sean]: kind of

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: adapt

[roger_mcfillin]: kind of adapt

[sean]: so any

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: information

[roger_mcfillin]: any information

[sean]: that you can

[roger_mcfillin]: that you can

[sean]: provide about

[roger_mcfillin]: provide about

[sean]: we know clinically

[roger_mcfillin]: we know clinically

[sean]: to be able

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: to support

[roger_mcfillin]: be able to support

[sean]: people who

[roger_mcfillin]: people

[sean]: are going

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: through

[roger_mcfillin]: are going

[sean]: this

[roger_mcfillin]: through

[yassie_pirani]: so in my work of understanding more
about the lived experience with people with p

[yassie_pirani]: s d i've just come to learn
how immense the ripple effects are this condition

[yassie_pirani]: can beyond people's lives as relationships self
esteem quality of life motivation identity and many

[yassie_pirani]: other aspects the loss of sexual identity
and expression can have devastating consequences on mental

[yassie_pirani]: health of course and really shatter one's
identity and self worth

[emily_]: m

[yassie_pirani]: and be a really big reading process
so a lot of the work is

[emily_]: okay

[yassie_pirani]: moving to grief and to a place
of

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: of acceptance

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: m p p s s t it's
only when somebody's sexuality is removed when people

[yassie_pirani]: realize how intrinsic it is to their
self expression and sense of empowerment um so

[yassie_pirani]: people feel this experience is profoundly s
empowering injury and

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[yassie_pirani]: really can shape have such an impact
on somebody's identity

[emily_]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: especially you know in terms of figuring
out somebody's sexual orientation or membership in the

[yassie_pirani]: queer community is it

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[yassie_pirani]: really really is so so life altering
and and again depending on the symptom profile

[yassie_pirani]: for some people it's absolutely catastrophic and
some people are impacted less profoundly depending on

[yassie_pirani]: what symptoms they get and so it
really i find it's a spectrum and for

[yassie_pirani]: some people on one end they're entirely
sexually and emotionally non functional and some people

[yassie_pirani]: it's just kind of my mild to
moderate libido reduction that doesn't strongly impact their

[yassie_pirani]: life in a big way so it's
really up to you know i find um

[yassie_pirani]: following the following the lead on on
the pap on the patient experience

[roger_mcfillin]: okay

[yassie_pirani]: and really using their language and their
frame of reference to understand how it's impacted

[yassie_pirani]: them is so important in terms of
hoping i mean it just it so depends

[yassie_pirani]: on the symptom profile um you know
for most people it really is grief it's

[yassie_pirani]: shock process and developing the capacity to
build community with other people who have p

[yassie_pirani]: s s t is really important because
it's just so hard for people so alienating

[yassie_pirani]: such an alienating experience people can't seem
to get the support or understanding that they

[yassie_pirani]: need from people who haven't had this
condition so there's there's something that is real

[yassie_pirani]: quite profound about being able to connect
and talk to other people who've had this

[yassie_pirani]: happened to them as well and really
i find

[yassie_pirani]: people it's so healing for people to
be believed by their health care providers to

[yassie_pirani]: be believed by people in positions and
authority who are supposed to be safe guarding

[yassie_pirani]: their well being how healing is for
people to actually just have somebody say recognize

[yassie_pirani]: this and say this is real and
here's the diagnosis un this is something wrong

[yassie_pirani]: that you know happened to you and
it's not your fault like that and it's

[yassie_pirani]: self is immense and it's really hard
for people to come by it's a lot

[yassie_pirani]: easier to have your doctor believe

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: you if you were a victim of
other kinds of sexual violence this this type

[yassie_pirani]: of sexual violence it's really hard to
be believed and to be validated and believed

[yassie_pirani]: is a corner stone of the healing
process so it's it's so important that we

[yassie_pirani]: build more awareness about this so people
can at least have their

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: pain recognized and validated as something real

[emily_]: yeah yeah i agree with all of
that i tell you that i mean having

[emily_]: your sexuality chemically removed and the attendant
symptoms of cognitive dis function it isn't really

[emily_]: something your god to get over it's
going to be something that hurts you for

[emily_]: the rest of your life and it's
goin o come in waves like any grieving

[emily_]: process and i think describing as grieving
processes you're very accurate you know i went

[emily_]: through all of the stages of grief
coming to terms with the fact that this

[emily_]: was going to be most likely was
going to be something i would have to

[emily_]: live with for the rest of my
life the things i found that were conducive

[emily_]: to learning how to cope were removing
self blame from the equation reaching out to

[emily_]: other people who had p s s
t you know like she described there is

[emily_]: an incredible feeling of isolation but being
able to build a community of people around

[emily_]: me who have gone through the same
thing and can kind of come in write

[emily_]: about it that did make me feel
more supported unless alone and also

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: i did eventually start getting through both
people in my life and some of the

[emily_]: people in the medical community here in
b c you know and i have done

[emily_]: presentations to the b c union of
social workers a colleague of ours did a

[emily_]: presentation to the b c psychiatric college
so the feeling of actually making some progress

[emily_]: has enabled me to create some meaning
out of it and gain a sense of

[emily_]: calm and it gives me some of
my control back you know it's not just

[emily_]: something that is being done to me
it is something that i do have i

[emily_]: do have a measure of control within
this ation um in my personal life it

[emily_]: has simply had to be learning how
not to think about it all the time

[emily_]: just truly having to develop the capacity
to compartmentalize and of the people i have

[emily_]: known who have experienced i'm not going
to say healing but increase in their ability

[emily_]: to cope compartmentalization is often a big
part of it just being

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[emily_]: able to set it aside okay okay
i will focus on

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[emily_]: other aspects of my life because this
ass fact is just destroyed but of course

[emily_]: the ripple effects throughout your life are
incredible you know you don't really have access

[emily_]: to the normal social environment that young
people inhabit the primary

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: person in most people's life is their
partner you know you may move to different

[emily_]: cities you may or may not be
close to your family most people

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[emily_]: the number one person in their life
is suppose um

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[emily_]: and then after that they're children but
if

[yassie_pirani]: oh

[emily_]: you don't have the ability really to
have supposed to have a relationship how are

[emily_]: you going to build a family so
the people who manage to deal with p

[emily_]: s s t in a less desperate
way are the people who are able to

[emily_]: build relationships outside of sort of that
tum

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[emily_]: who are able to build platonic relationships
that don't rely on a romantic connection but

[emily_]: for some people that's very very difficult

[sean]: hm

[roger_mcfillin]: hm

[yassie_pirani]: yet your everything you're saying emily

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: is so important i mean of course
to have your ability to experience an intimate

[yassie_pirani]: relationship and feel at home in your
own body and to have functioning emotions completely

[yassie_pirani]: removed by medicatio that was meant

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: to alleviate your emotional distress is such
a catastrophic thing to happen to someone and

[yassie_pirani]: so for most people it's not just
a traumatic event but a trauma that is

[yassie_pirani]: ongoing and nature remains unresolved it's sort
of hard to

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[yassie_pirani]: heal from a trauma when it's kind
of and continuing to happen to other

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[yassie_pirani]: people around you as well and just
to know that there every day there's

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: somebody who's at risk of having this
happen makes it really hard to feel like

[yassie_pirani]: you can have your own trauma resolve
because of this nobody's we don't have informed

[yassie_pirani]: consent practices that are that are stopping
this harm so many people yet really need

[yassie_pirani]: on going emotional and psychological support i
found sharing your story

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: and raising awareness can reduce that helplessness
and hopelessness and finding community so yeah like

[yassie_pirani]: finding ways to not to to reduce
sense of aliens the sense of alienation and

[yassie_pirani]: despair like like emily was mentioning yeah
year

[emily_]: yeah

[sean]: well said

[roger_mcfillin]: well

[sean]: thank

[roger_mcfillin]: said

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: thank you

[sean]: many clinicians

[roger_mcfillin]: many clinic

[sean]: out there

[roger_mcfillin]: out

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: professionals

[roger_mcfillin]: medical professionals

[sean]: have been

[roger_mcfillin]: have been

[sean]: kind of conditioned

[roger_mcfillin]: kind of

[emily_]: m

[roger_mcfillin]: condition

[sean]: and taught

[roger_mcfillin]: caught

[sean]: through

[roger_mcfillin]: through

[sean]: guide lines

[roger_mcfillin]: guide

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: lines

[sean]: are supposed

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: supposed

[sean]: be evidence

[roger_mcfillin]: to be

[sean]: based

[roger_mcfillin]: evidence

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: research

[roger_mcfillin]: research

[sean]: supported

[roger_mcfillin]: supported

[sean]: that when someone

[roger_mcfillin]: that when someone

[sean]: is suffering

[roger_mcfillin]: is suffering

[sean]: emotionally

[roger_mcfillin]: emotionally

[sean]: a front line

[roger_mcfillin]: front

[sean]: treatment

[roger_mcfillin]: line treatment

[sean]: would be

[roger_mcfillin]: would be

[sean]: n s

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: s

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: r

[roger_mcfillin]: s

[sean]: i

[roger_mcfillin]: r

[emily_]: yes

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: it's almost

[roger_mcfillin]: it's almost

[sean]: so widely

[roger_mcfillin]: so widely

[sean]: accepted

[roger_mcfillin]: accepted

[sean]: now

[roger_mcfillin]: now

[sean]: that it's not

[roger_mcfillin]: it's not

[sean]: even thought

[roger_mcfillin]: even

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: thought

[sean]: as

[roger_mcfillin]: about as

[sean]: potentially

[roger_mcfillin]: potentially

[sean]: a risky

[roger_mcfillin]: a risky

[sean]: medical intervention

[roger_mcfillin]: medical intervention

[sean]: what advice

[roger_mcfillin]: what advice

[sean]: can you give

[roger_mcfillin]: can you give

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: both medical

[roger_mcfillin]: both

[sean]: profs

[roger_mcfillin]: medical

[sean]: ationals

[roger_mcfillin]: professionals

[sean]: and those

[roger_mcfillin]: and those

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: in

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: doing

[roger_mcfillin]: doing

[sean]: conducting

[roger_mcfillin]: conducting

[sean]: clinical

[roger_mcfillin]: clinical

[sean]: work and

[roger_mcfillin]: work

[sean]: recommending

[roger_mcfillin]: and recommending

[sean]: their patients

[roger_mcfillin]: their patients

[sean]: go seek out

[roger_mcfillin]: seek

[sean]: a consult

[roger_mcfillin]: out to consult

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: medication

[roger_mcfillin]: medication

[sean]: evaluation

[roger_mcfillin]: valuation

[sean]: what

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: advice

[roger_mcfillin]: advice

[sean]: would you

[roger_mcfillin]: would

[sean]: give

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: them

[roger_mcfillin]: give them

[emily_]: ah he do you want to go
first

[yassie_pirani]: i think i think there's so many
ways to look at human distress and mental

[yassie_pirani]: illness and suffering and i think one
of the disease model the bio cal model

[yassie_pirani]: that we have predominantly for mental illness
right now in the medical community on is

[yassie_pirani]: if if you have a mental illness
in our culture or to have any periods

[yassie_pirani]: of darkness or suffering it's wrong and
it means you're off track and it needs

[yassie_pirani]: to need to be fixed and i
think a lot we can learn from spiritual

[yassie_pirani]: paradoms that see someone who is truly
trying to be in the

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[yassie_pirani]: awake in their life will go through
suffering because life is sad and difficult and

[yassie_pirani]: hard and as you get closer to
knowing your heart you're going to find pain

[yassie_pirani]: there and it doesn't mean you're messing
up means you're really committed to learning and

[yassie_pirani]: being awake and growing sometimes a we
we go through pain and it brings us

[yassie_pirani]: brings us to a place that we
wouldn't

[emily_]: ye

[yassie_pirani]: have gotten to otherwise and there is
value there is value in being with our

[yassie_pirani]: suffering and being with our pain and
i think that value needs to be acknowledged

[yassie_pirani]: and recognized of course um you know
we we also need to be looking at

[yassie_pirani]: bigger social context around what it is
is causing distress do we need um political

[yassie_pirani]: interventions to what's happening with the economy
like all these kinds of environmental

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: factors like are suicide rates going up
because teen agers brains or they're on their

[yassie_pirani]: phones too much and their ten their
brains are tan no it's it's we're living

[yassie_pirani]: in a terrifying world the scientists are
saying we're in ecological

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: armegetan i mean that's terrifying for young
people and the prospects for finding stability

[roger_mcfillin]: right

[yassie_pirani]: and security and such a such a
tumultue it's changing

[roger_mcfillin]: yes

[yassie_pirani]: ecosystem

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: that we're finding ourselves in in the
world these

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: days know those things are need to
be recognized and we need we need social

[yassie_pirani]: change i think and to put all
the blame on somebody brain or or you

[yassie_pirani]: know just okay this there's a disease
process and you need medication that's one lens

[yassie_pirani]: but there's all these other lenses that
we need to be looking at in terms

[yassie_pirani]: of what makes somebody have good mental
have good mental health do they have access

[yassie_pirani]: to do they have access to the
kind of what kind of quality of life

[yassie_pirani]: are they living based on their associate
com mike status et cetera et cetera

[sean]: so the idea

[roger_mcfillin]: so the

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: idea

[sean]: somebody

[roger_mcfillin]: that somebody

[sean]: experiences

[roger_mcfillin]: experiences

[sean]: what would

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: would

[sean]: considered

[roger_mcfillin]: be considered

[sean]: normal and

[roger_mcfillin]: normal

[sean]: expected

[roger_mcfillin]: and expected

[sean]: emotions

[roger_mcfillin]: emotions

[sean]: given the

[roger_mcfillin]: given

[sean]: events

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: events

[sean]: their life

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: their

[sean]: they're

[roger_mcfillin]: life

[sean]: facing

[roger_mcfillin]: that they're

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: facing

[sean]: the idea

[roger_mcfillin]: with the idea

[sean]: of identifying

[roger_mcfillin]: identifying

[sean]: it as

[roger_mcfillin]: it

[sean]: an

[roger_mcfillin]: as

[sean]: illness

[roger_mcfillin]: an illness

[sean]: is extremely

[roger_mcfillin]: is extremely

[sean]: harmful

[roger_mcfillin]: harmful

[sean]: and it's

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: it's

[sean]: it's a world

[roger_mcfillin]: it's a

[sean]: view

[roger_mcfillin]: world view

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: creates

[roger_mcfillin]: creates

[sean]: tremendous

[roger_mcfillin]: tremendous

[sean]: amounts

[emily_]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: amount

[sean]: of dependency

[roger_mcfillin]: of dependency

[sean]: vulnerability

[roger_mcfillin]: vulnerability

[sean]: and it's a

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: harmful

[roger_mcfillin]: it's a harmful

[sean]: idea

[roger_mcfillin]: idea

[sean]: and we have

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: to be

[roger_mcfillin]: we have

[sean]: open

[roger_mcfillin]: to be

[sean]: about

[roger_mcfillin]: open

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: about

[sean]: we

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: have to

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: be

[roger_mcfillin]: have to

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: very

[roger_mcfillin]: very

[sean]: clear

[roger_mcfillin]: very clear

[sean]: that our

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: our emotional

[sean]: experien

[roger_mcfillin]: experin

[sean]: it is related

[roger_mcfillin]: does it relate

[sean]: to stressful

[roger_mcfillin]: to stressful

[sean]: and adverse

[roger_mcfillin]: and adverse

[sean]: conditions

[roger_mcfillin]: conditions

[sean]: are normal

[roger_mcfillin]: are

[sean]: and

[roger_mcfillin]: normal

[sean]: expected

[roger_mcfillin]: and expected

[sean]: and there's a purpose

[roger_mcfillin]: an there's a purpose

[sean]: for them

[roger_mcfillin]: for them

[sean]: and so to

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: quickly

[roger_mcfillin]: so to quickly

[sean]: label that

[roger_mcfillin]: label

[sean]: in some

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: disease

[roger_mcfillin]: is some disease

[sean]: state

[roger_mcfillin]: state

[sean]: is a

[roger_mcfillin]: is

[sean]: harmful

[roger_mcfillin]: a harmful

[sean]: idea

[roger_mcfillin]: idea

[sean]: could lead

[roger_mcfillin]: could

[sean]: to a

[roger_mcfillin]: lead

[sean]: harmful

[roger_mcfillin]: to a harmful

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: medical

[sean]: intervention

[roger_mcfillin]: intervention

[sean]: emily you

[roger_mcfillin]: emily

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: you are

[sean]: you know somebody

[roger_mcfillin]: you know somebody

[sean]: who was

[roger_mcfillin]: who was

[sean]: at seventeen

[roger_mcfillin]: at seventeen was

[sean]: was placed in that

[roger_mcfillin]: placed

[sean]: position

[roger_mcfillin]: in that position

[sean]: i'm sure if

[roger_mcfillin]: i'm

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: sure

[sean]: would

[roger_mcfillin]: if

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: would

[roger_mcfillin]: would you

[sean]: look back

[roger_mcfillin]: look back

[sean]: you you prefer

[roger_mcfillin]: you prefer

[sean]: to able to

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: deal

[roger_mcfillin]: be able

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: what

[roger_mcfillin]: deal

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: what

[sean]: feeling

[roger_mcfillin]: you are feeling

[sean]: in different

[roger_mcfillin]: in different

[sean]: ways

[roger_mcfillin]: ways

[sean]: but you

[roger_mcfillin]: but

[sean]: are

[roger_mcfillin]: you were

[sean]: provided

[roger_mcfillin]: provided

[sean]: what

[roger_mcfillin]: at

[sean]: it amounted

[roger_mcfillin]: what amounted

[sean]: to to believe somewhat

[roger_mcfillin]: to believe

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: somewhat

[sean]: a kind

[roger_mcfillin]: of a

[sean]: of a

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: a

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: quick fix

[roger_mcfillin]: quick

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: fix

[sean]: kind of

[roger_mcfillin]: to kind

[sean]: help

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[emily_]: oh

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: help you

[sean]: in dealing

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: dealing

[sean]: what

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: you were

[roger_mcfillin]: like you were

[sean]: dealing with

[roger_mcfillin]: dealing

[sean]: what advice

[roger_mcfillin]: with what

[sean]: would

[roger_mcfillin]: advice

[sean]: you give

[roger_mcfillin]: would

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: give

[sean]: medical

[roger_mcfillin]: to that

[sean]: professional

[roger_mcfillin]: medical professional

[sean]: who you

[roger_mcfillin]: who

[sean]: initially consulted

[roger_mcfillin]: initially consulted

[sean]: with

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[emily_]: yuh simply that

[emily_]: when you don't know the long term
effects of medication you know it can interfere

[emily_]: with sexual development and you know that
it is common for ten ages to go

[emily_]: through not just temporary periods sometimes even
years of emotional tribulanceis there eveloping is it

[emily_]: really the less dangerous option to prescribe
that medication i recognize that all medical professionals

[emily_]: have to make tough calls sometimes they
have to sometimes choose the less dangerous or

[emily_]: perceived less harmful approach but why was
that the less dangerous approach to put a

[emily_]: certain drug a certain chemical who that
they don't know the long term effects of

[emily_]: into a teenage body a very critical
developmental period i just don't understand so i

[emily_]: think i would just tell her to
maybe

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[emily_]: i think that much better ways of
coping for me at the time would have

[emily_]: been more psychologically focused or frankly even
just letting me grow up just leaving well

[emily_]: enough alone it probably would have worked
itself out in time

[sean]: yeah there's that

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah there's

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: that at

[sean]: that concept

[roger_mcfillin]: that concept

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: watchful

[roger_mcfillin]: watch

[sean]: waiting

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: which

[roger_mcfillin]: which

[sean]: we don't use

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[emily_]: hm

[roger_mcfillin]: don't

[sean]: enough

[roger_mcfillin]: use enough

[sean]: it's just

[roger_mcfillin]: it's just

[sean]: being able

[roger_mcfillin]: being

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: able

[sean]: not

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: intervene

[roger_mcfillin]: not in

[sean]: and let

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: the natural

[roger_mcfillin]: let the natural

[sean]: progression

[roger_mcfillin]: progression

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: of

[sean]: a what we call

[roger_mcfillin]: what we

[sean]: episodes

[roger_mcfillin]: call episodes

[sean]: to be able

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: be

[sean]: play

[roger_mcfillin]: able

[sean]: itself

[roger_mcfillin]: to play itself

[sean]: out in somewhat

[roger_mcfillin]: out in somewhat

[sean]: a different

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: kind

[roger_mcfillin]: different

[sean]: of

[roger_mcfillin]: kind

[sean]: approach

[roger_mcfillin]: approach

[sean]: the watchful

[roger_mcfillin]: the watchful

[sean]: part meaning

[roger_mcfillin]: part

[sean]: we

[roger_mcfillin]: meaning

[sean]: take it

[roger_mcfillin]: we

[sean]: seriously

[roger_mcfillin]: take it seriously

[sean]: and maybe

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[sean]: that's

[roger_mcfillin]: maybe

[sean]: the need

[roger_mcfillin]: that's

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: some

[roger_mcfillin]: need for

[sean]: emotional

[roger_mcfillin]: some emotional

[sean]: support

[roger_mcfillin]: support

[sean]: or family

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: family

[sean]: community

[roger_mcfillin]: or community

[sean]: to be able

[roger_mcfillin]: to be

[sean]: to

[roger_mcfillin]: able

[sean]: assist

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: assist

[sean]: person

[roger_mcfillin]: that

[sean]: who

[roger_mcfillin]: person

[sean]: is struggling

[roger_mcfillin]: who is struggling

[sean]: maybe

[roger_mcfillin]: maybe

[sean]: even a

[roger_mcfillin]: even a

[sean]: know less restrictive

[roger_mcfillin]: a less restrictive

[sean]: intervention

[roger_mcfillin]: intervention

[sean]: like a

[roger_mcfillin]: like

[sean]: like

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: a therapy

[roger_mcfillin]: like a therapy

[sean]: might be

[roger_mcfillin]: might be

[sean]: you know necessary

[roger_mcfillin]: necessary

[sean]: or recommended

[roger_mcfillin]: or recommended

[sean]: but the idea

[roger_mcfillin]: but the

[sean]: that everything

[roger_mcfillin]: idea that

[sean]: has

[roger_mcfillin]: everything

[sean]: to be

[roger_mcfillin]: has

[sean]: quickly

[roger_mcfillin]: to be quickly

[sean]: intervened

[roger_mcfillin]: devine

[sean]: with with

[roger_mcfillin]: with

[sean]: a pill

[roger_mcfillin]: with a pill

[sean]: obviously

[roger_mcfillin]: obviously

[sean]: has

[roger_mcfillin]: has

[sean]: great consequences

[roger_mcfillin]: great consequences

[yassie_pirani]: there's a variety of treatment options that
that are known to be effective for people

[yassie_pirani]: with anxiety and depression and under other
mental health issues that have significantly less risk

[yassie_pirani]: of harm associated for example therapy attention
exercise do does your doctor teach you about

[yassie_pirani]: these things typically now when you go
to the hospital for an episode do they

[yassie_pirani]: teach you

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: grounding and breathing and all its kinds
of tools do you learn them in school

[roger_mcfillin]: ah

[yassie_pirani]: most people don't i mean maybe that's
changing now hopefully but i didn't and you

[yassie_pirani]: know there's the research just on xerciseumis
quite profound and i think

[roger_mcfillin]: ye

[yassie_pirani]: the we just going going physicians don't
know what's at stake right you know who

[yassie_pirani]: aren't aware of these patients are going
in they don't know what's at stake and

[yassie_pirani]: the true risks of these drugs and
so until we we just need wider awareness

[yassie_pirani]: who need more of these conversations happening
because it's just so important for people to

[yassie_pirani]: be able to access all the information
and then way the true risks and benefits

[yassie_pirani]: of all options so they can decide
what themselves what risks they're willing to take

[yassie_pirani]: and i think it also engages questions
around okay is there accessible for people pills

[yassie_pirani]: are accessible medications accept accessible is living
in in

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[yassie_pirani]: a community where you have support and

[roger_mcfillin]: m

[yassie_pirani]: access to clean water and nutritious food
and nature are those things accessible for everybody

[yassie_pirani]: or people you know they're working three
jobs like they don't you know they don't

[yassie_pirani]: have they

[emily_]: o

[yassie_pirani]: can't they can't afford private therapy and
the weight less for their ping the public

[yassie_pirani]: health system so so long so those
are all things we need to be also

[yassie_pirani]: addressing as well we're looking at informed
consent

[emily_]: oh

[yassie_pirani]: is somebody exercising informed consent when all
of those other options aren't actually financially accessible

[yassie_pirani]: for them and the pills are really
the only thing that's being told to but

[yassie_pirani]: offered by their doctors

[roger_mcfillin]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: it's not true for in content

[roger_mcfillin]: a

[sean]: good point

[roger_mcfillin]: good point

[sean]: you guys are amazing

[roger_mcfillin]: you guys are amazing

[sean]: i couldn't

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: imagine

[roger_mcfillin]: couldn't imagine

[sean]: two better

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: voices

[roger_mcfillin]: better voices

[sean]: for this

[roger_mcfillin]: for this

[sean]: serious

[roger_mcfillin]: serious

[sean]: complex

[roger_mcfillin]: complex

[sean]: and challenging

[roger_mcfillin]: and challenging

[sean]: issue

[roger_mcfillin]: issue

[sean]: where can

[roger_mcfillin]: where

[sean]: people

[roger_mcfillin]: can people

[sean]: find you

[roger_mcfillin]: find

[sean]: or

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: how can

[roger_mcfillin]: or

[sean]: we

[roger_mcfillin]: how

[sean]: bring

[roger_mcfillin]: can

[sean]: attention

[roger_mcfillin]: we bring attention

[sean]: to some of

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: the work

[roger_mcfillin]: some of

[sean]: that

[roger_mcfillin]: the

[sean]: you're

[roger_mcfillin]: work that

[sean]: doing

[roger_mcfillin]: you're doing

[sean]: for we close

[roger_mcfillin]: for we

[sean]: today

[roger_mcfillin]: close today

[emily_]: we have a website for the canadian
p s s t society it's a w

[emily_]: w dot p s s t canada
dot c a i'd also like to draw

[emily_]: some attention to new p s s
d focused organization that recently started up based

[emily_]: in australia called the p s s
d network and it can be found at

[emily_]: p s s t network dot or
they've hit the ground running and have already

[emily_]: done a photo

[roger_mcfillin]: uh

[emily_]: campaign to try and raise awareness about

[roger_mcfillin]: h

[emily_]: p s s t we've also seen
a lot of organization starting up around the

[emily_]: world in the past few years there's
a very active one in germany called pssdhillfa

[emily_]: hill face belt h i l f
e m and you can access their site

[emily_]: and you can so they have a
english translation button on the side if you

[emily_]: want to keep track of their activities
the work of professor david healy is a

[emily_]: great place to get an over view
of p s s t he has a

[emily_]: large of the available literature linked on
his websiteum

[yassie_pirani]: risk dot

[emily_]: yeah

[yassie_pirani]: or

[emily_]: and risk

[yassie_pirani]: i

[emily_]: dot or yeah yeah and also if
you visit the p s st canada website

[emily_]: we have a page under resources of
many different other organizations and we also have

[emily_]: a compilation of a mike sources that
you can access

[sean]: great

[roger_mcfillin]: great

[sean]: thank you

[roger_mcfillin]: thank you

[sean]: i want to thank

[roger_mcfillin]: i

[sean]: you

[roger_mcfillin]: want to

[sean]: both

[roger_mcfillin]: thank you both

[sean]: for having

[roger_mcfillin]: for

[sean]: a radically

[roger_mcfillin]: having

[sean]: genuine

[roger_mcfillin]: radically

[sean]: conversation

[roger_mcfillin]: genuine conversation

[sean]: with us

[roger_mcfillin]: with us

[sean]: obviously

[yassie_pirani]: yeah

[roger_mcfillin]: obviously

[sean]: there is some

[roger_mcfillin]: there

[sean]: momentum

[roger_mcfillin]: is momentum

[sean]: that is moving

[roger_mcfillin]: that is

[sean]: in the

[roger_mcfillin]: moving

[sean]: right

[roger_mcfillin]: in

[sean]: direction

[roger_mcfillin]: the right direction

[sean]: to greater

[roger_mcfillin]: to

[sean]: inform

[roger_mcfillin]: greater

[emily_]: hm

[sean]: the

[roger_mcfillin]: nor

[sean]: public

[roger_mcfillin]: public

[sean]: and medical

[roger_mcfillin]: and medical

[sean]: and mental health

[roger_mcfillin]: and

[emily_]: oh

[roger_mcfillin]: mental

[sean]: professionals

[roger_mcfillin]: professionals

[sean]: about this really

[roger_mcfillin]: about this

[sean]: important

[roger_mcfillin]: really

[sean]: issue

[roger_mcfillin]: important issue

[sean]: thank you so

[roger_mcfillin]: thank

[sean]: much

[roger_mcfillin]: you

[sean]: for

[roger_mcfillin]: so

[sean]: coming

[roger_mcfillin]: much for

[sean]: on

[roger_mcfillin]: coming on

[emily_]: thank you very much mchillan

[yassie_pirani]: thank you

[sean]: thank you both

[yassie_pirani]: yes

[roger_mcfillin]: thank you both