Radically Genuine Podcast with Dr. Roger McFillin

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (00:02.808)
Welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast. am Dr. Roger McFillin. Here's a question I want everybody who is listening to just ponder. What would it take for you to lose every civil right you have? Not a trial, not a conviction, not evidence of a crime. In America, all it takes is one person's opinion.

an opinion dressed up in medical language, protected by institutional authority, and backed by the power to inject chemicals into your body against your will. We call this mental health care. Psychiatry remains the only field in medicine where your diagnosis can be based entirely on someone else's interpretation of your behavior. No blood test, no brain scan.

No objective marker of disease, yet it's under the purview of the medical system. It's just a judgment call made by a stranger who may have met you on your worst day that can strip you of your freedom, your autonomy, and your voice. And once you're inside that system, the more you protest, the sicker they say you are. The more you advocate for yourself,

the more insight you supposedly lack. It's a Kafka trap with a prescription pad. Today's guests live this nightmare. What started as a trip to a hospital or a potential UTI ended with forced injections, court orders, and a diagnosis she'd never had. But she didn't stay silent. What she's uncovered since and what she's doing about it now is a story I think you need to hear.

And I want to welcome Rachel Hunter to the radically genuine podcast.

Rachel Hunter (02:05.591)
Hello, thank you so much for having me. I've been listening to you actually since I got out of the hospital in 2023, but my little sister had been telling me to listen to you a lot longer. I just was like, I'm not a podcast person. Well, turns out I am. just didn't know.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:22.86)
I'm grateful for you listening. I'm grateful for you reaching out because these are the conversations that people need to hear. And it doesn't matter whether you've been in the system or you're outside the system. It is a human rights issue. I think it's important for mental health professionals to wake up. And I think just from a perspective, a national perspective, is we have to realize how easy it is for our freedom and liberties to be taken away and how the mental health industrial complex can

actually act as an arm of an authoritarian government. And so I want you to kind of walk us through a little bit of this story. I'm actually a little bit more interested to know who you are prior to this incident. So to be able to provide the listener some context about how you got to this position, I think is probably important before we jump into the story.

Rachel Hunter (03:19.305)
Absolutely. So I, I'm a mom. I have three daughters. I'm married. My oldest daughter is from a previous relationship long, long time ago. She's almost 17. I worked, I did sales for a long time, all different types of sales. And then when I got pregnant with my youngest daughter, who's now six, we decided for me to be a stay at home mom. So it was a big change for me, but I did a little side hustle things. we

It's funny. don't know if you guys have this out there, but we would do bulk trash. Actually you do. used to follow a guy, I think in Pennsylvania, taco stacks, but where you go around and people put out their bulk trash, we'd get items and flip them and resell them to make, make a little bit more income. But I also love researching things. And so, you know, I, I dig into things when I see something.

a news story. You know, I spend my time like looking like, let me see, let me do a little more research. And I had also been very involved in the family court system here in Arizona. Since my oldest daughter, like I said, her dad and I spoke when she was six months old. So I kind of got to see how that was working. And then as years went on, I started to realize how, how bad the family court system was and how I call it corrupt.

and what they were doing to families when one of my best friends' kids were taken out of her care and put with their dad after her daughter came out about sexual abuse with the dad. And the judge, he did it because he wasn't happy with how my friend was handling it, but police were involved. There was just so much involved and I'm like, how is this possible? So me and my friend, really started to dig into the family court system, the judges.

How does it work? How are these judges getting in? How are they staying in? Department of child safety. You've got juvenile court, you know, all these things. And we started attending family court committee meetings because I was just saying, mom, I could do this stuff during the day. And just really started educating ourselves on the system while she still was fighting for her kids while they're with their abuser. And, you know, all of this just really started to...

Rachel Hunter (05:41.111)
bring out the justice driven person that I am. And we started connecting women. It was mostly women, but there was some men too and getting together, figuring out like what's going on. Like we have to understand why this is happening. And, you know, I don't know, but I feel like that could have even had a part in everything that happened to me.

It's really hard to say, because it's real conspiracy-ish.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (06:08.503)
Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (06:12.524)
Well, on the podcast like this, usually, you know, we find out those who have the conspiracy theories are the independent thinkers who are able to follow different threads and can think critically. What I'm getting from you right now is though, your story, I think is familiar to probably a lot of people you're trying to make ends meet your stay at home mom. You're used to being in the workforce, you seem to be somebody who has an inquisitive mind and a strong moral compass. And you're using this time to kind of do research on your own and

Rachel Hunter (06:14.582)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (06:30.935)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (06:42.402)
to advocate for specific areas of your life that you are highly passionate about and you value. And in this respect, it's a clear kind of understanding about fairness in the family court system. You've gone through it yourself. So you're trying to contribute. You're trying to help. can even see the passion there, right? So before we get into that question about like, is this connected to other things,

Rachel Hunter (07:04.673)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (07:11.55)
Let's go step by step. When you reached out to me, you said you were diagnosed with ADHD at age five. How was that diagnosis made and why?

Rachel Hunter (07:19.734)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (07:25.611)
Just as a kid, was always very hyperactive, more so than other kids. mean, at like, even like eight months old, I was climbing six foot shelves that we had in our house and would never slept. My dad, he would even say he couldn't believe it, because I was his first kid, I was my mom's third, but he was just like, I was always awake, just all over the place all the time. then...

You know, have a younger sister and I think when my parents had her and saw she was just nothing like the way that I was in the way, um, I, know, my mom had the doctor, you know, it's check and she had said, she was like, you know, they, we do think that I think part of it had to do one when they diagnosed me, was something that had to do with, um, giving me like Sudafed more or less made me even tired and Benadryl.

had like no effect on me where a lot of times people take Benadryl, they get tired. And the doctor at the time back then, she was like, you know, that, was her, you know, one of her signs of that, but she's

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (08:34.191)
What's pseudoscience nonsense? We know that that chemical affects people differently, including me. can't take it. Yeah, can't take Sudafed. That energizes me. That doesn't make me drowsy. But that's a well-known side effect. So this supposed doctor said...

Rachel Hunter (08:42.953)
Right, exactly.

Rachel Hunter (08:49.175)
Right.

But it was like the opposite for me. Like Sudafed would almost make me tired and Benadryl. like, don't know what, either way it was like, whatever she came up with, the good thing about it is at that point, like she had told my mom, she said, if it's not affecting her in school, don't medicate her. know? Exactly. And this was, I mean, I'm 38 now, so this was like 1992, I think it was.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (09:12.633)
But you're only five.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (09:19.151)
All right. So I want alert the, I want to alert the audience right now to understand the zeitgeist of that particular time is they started pushing childhood bipolar disorder, in the mid nineties, early to mid nineties by a name of Joseph Biederman, who was funded by various pharmaceutical companies to create a market for mood stabilizers for kids. And, there was a real push in the literature to view ADHD and bipolar disorder.

as a spectrum condition for kids that would predict later mental health disorders or you you're trying to identify it as a brain condition. None of this panned out clearly and a huge abuse and conflict of interests from that period of time. So they you were a very hyperactive child.

I'm sorry, I misspoke the chemicals of, know, Sudafed and Benadryl can have varying effects on people based on biochemistry, you know, that's not out of the ordinary. That's not indicative of an underlying brain condition called ADHD. Stimulants have a focusing effect on everybody.

Rachel Hunter (10:21.387)
Love it.

Rachel Hunter (10:35.244)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (10:35.917)
And so there's a lot of misconceptions throughout the years that suggest that if you respond to a certain chemical, then that means that you have a certain brain condition. There's no correlation there. I just wanna make sure that's obvious. So that's your only mental health history. You're diagnosed with ADHD at age five.

Rachel Hunter (10:46.646)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (10:51.511)
Right, yeah. And then, you know, like all through my childhood, I wasn't medicated. You know, I had some weird things. One thing was called like, like, implanus. It was like a rash on my leg, which it's funny because now I can associate that because I was diagnosed in 2014 with celiac and that was actually something that was associated to celiac. But was I ever even considered to be tested for celiac as a kid? No, because I didn't have gut issues.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (11:20.943)
Were you vaccinated?

Rachel Hunter (11:21.099)
You know, but as a kid, yes, yep.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (11:23.875)
Yeah, so you're fully vaccinated. We're understanding the implications of that. You have celiac disease. There's other conditions that could be.

Rachel Hunter (11:33.779)
MTHFR gene mutation. I haven't been tested, but my six-year-old has two strains of it. So one came from me, one came from my husband. And so I already had an inclination that I had that recently.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (11:46.96)
Yeah, which is so which is my major concern with the psychiatric industrial complex. There are legitimate medical conditions that could influence child behavior and adult behavior. When you label somebody with ADHD, then you stop that investigation like it's just a fake diagnosis. Just trying to drug you with a stimulant to try to control your behavior. So you have no other mental health history. Take us up to 2023. The event that you reached out.

Rachel Hunter (12:03.031)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (12:16.259)
to me about what happened.

Rachel Hunter (12:18.687)
Yeah, well, so before that, first time I actually seeked mental health treatment was after I had my oldest daughter, because I was on Adderall. But then when I got pregnant, I stopped taking it. And then after I had my daughter, I thought maybe I had postpartum depression. Turns out I really just didn't like her dad. Okay. But I was like, I need to get checked because I was young. I was 22. was like, I've heard how serious this is. Let me get it checked out.

went to psychiatrist, he actually wanted to make sure that I wasn't misdiagnosed ADHD and supposed to be diagnosed bipolar. So he had to rule it out. However he did with whatever medications, was one of those, was young, was a, listen to the doctor. Yeah, he put me back on Adderall. And then he also, I think I was on Wellbutrin.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (13:02.861)
put you on drugs to rule it out?

Rachel Hunter (13:12.031)
and something else. And I remember one time, couldn't remember if I had taken it and I'm like, and I took it. And I think I had taken a double dose and it made me all like, it was not good. I was like crying, confused. And it was after that that the doctor ended up telling me, he's like, yeah, I don't think, not bipolar. It's definitely just ADHD. We'll just keep you on the outer. And I was like, okay. And then from there, nothing until 2017.

I had been dealing with a lot of issues with my oldest daughter's dad and I had been drinking heavily and I was still, I was working, everything good, but I'd come home from work and be like, take shots. Let's take some shots. know, me, my husband, my friend come over, you know, we just hang out like, and, but it was, it was out of control and I was doing it to cope with just issues in my life. I was using alcohol to cope and I...

realized when I started to feel like I started to get depressed, which obviously I'm drinking alcohol, we just depress it. Hello, right? And I have a, my middle daughter was like a year and a half and she was a wild child and a lot like me when I was a kid, but, and I ended up, this is how I landed myself in the hospital the first time.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (14:17.68)
Also depressive, you know?

Rachel Hunter (14:38.025)
I ended up taking like seven Xanax that I had had from a car accident. was in and had panic attacks after and I still had them and I had had too much to drink and I convinced myself I was like, you know what? My oldest daughter, she would be better. I told myself all these people who'd be better without me because I just wasn't who I was supposed to be. And it was more like I was drunk. That's what it was. I did not want to be here. I've never had those feelings in my life.

100 % the alcohol but I landed myself in the hospital for the first time 2017 and I was like I Didn't even know that I was there until I woke up and I'm like, where am I? Like I told him I was gonna pull the fire alarm. I was like I have rights You can't keep me here whatever and they're like, no we can but then I I went all in and I Agreed with the psychiatrist. They put me on Lexapro. I'm like, okay, they diagnosed me depressed

Okay, this is it. Good. I'm done drinking. 100%. Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (15:39.536)
Did you make changes with your substance use? Yes. You're struggling with alcohol. You're in a stressful period of your life. Now you have a diagnosis of major depressive disorder. They put you on Lexapro. How long did you stay on the Lexapro for?

Rachel Hunter (15:53.527)
So I was on Lexapro and sober and eight months in, August 2018, and I'm just like, I'm gonna have a glass of wine. And I go to drink a glass of wine and then instantly it's like, I'm just having bad thoughts again. I could do not even a full glass of wine in, half a glass of wine. I was on Lexapro and I was pregnant.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:17.37)
Were you still on the Lexi Pro 2? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the things that happen.

Rachel Hunter (16:23.381)
and I didn't know it. I found out at the hospital that I was...

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:25.008)
Okay, all right.

Okay, so you're mixing Lexapro without call. Of course that might really impact your mood and thoughts. But yeah, so I don't want to spend too much time on that. want to spend time on

Rachel Hunter (16:35.991)
100%.

No, but they used this, they used all of that when it came to 2023 to really solidify what they did to me in 2023. And it had absolutely no relation because I stayed sober from then. I was sober. I stayed sober for over six years just because I didn't want to drink. I didn't have to go to meetings. I wasn't craving it, nothing. like, I don't want to.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:47.29)
Okay.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (17:05.872)
Rachel, did you seek more mental health help in that 2017 incident?

Rachel Hunter (17:09.943)
I actually did. Yeah, in 2021, I got a counselor. Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (17:14.352)
Wait, hold on a second. One second. I want to stay in sequence here. So I did sorry I interrupted you. In 2017, you said that you mixed the alcohol with Lexapro. After that, did you enter into the mental health system or did you just stop drinking?

Rachel Hunter (17:21.601)
you're good.

Rachel Hunter (17:26.167)
Good.

Rachel Hunter (17:33.575)
So in 2017, when they started me on the Alexa pro and I stopped drinking and then I had that barely any wine and started having just like bad thoughts, went back to banner banner Thunderbird is one of the hospitals out here because in 2017 I felt like I had a decent experience there with the way they treated me. Cause I, fell in line is really what it was. and then 2018.

I went back, they wouldn't let me leave. tried to leave AMA. I was like, I just found out I'm pregnant. Like I've been sober. I don't want to be on this Lexapro. I think that's the problem. I understand I need to get out. And I finally, I was able to get out after they released me after the weekend, because they made sure to hold me that weekend to get that insurance money. And then I stayed sober in 2021. I started getting counseling. I didn't do anything else besides that. Pregnant, had my kid, stay at home mom.

working as side jobs, things like that. 2021, I started getting counseling with this and I had that counselor up until this last summer before I was hospitalized in 2023.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (18:39.505)
Okay, so this context matters because you're saying you used all that history and this is gonna inform our listeners about what happened. So I want us just to be aware of context and history. There was previous hospitalizations under stressful events, under substance use, and now you're, take us to 2023.

Rachel Hunter (18:47.745)
Yep.

Absolutely.

Rachel Hunter (19:01.015)
100%.

Rachel Hunter (19:05.335)
So, so 2023, like I said, so 2022, I started getting these terrible crushing headaches. Didn't know what it was. I was seemingly healthy, except for I had celiac disease and I had been eating gluten because it wasn't making me feel sick. So, you know, I thought maybe, maybe I cured it with my pregnancy and I looked stuff up, couldn't find anything that backed that up, but still kind of, I wasn't getting sick and I wanted to eat.

gluten. But I started getting these crushing headaches. I mean, I, I can't even I get migraines. It was migraine times 10. Go to the doctors, they do MRIs. I've got too much spinal fluid around my brain. So they put me on a diuretic. I'm down to 104 pounds. Like, what is next next is going to be the lumbar puncture. I'm like, but what's causing it? And I start to do some research. And I figure I think it's because I'm eating gluten. And I go back to the GI.

They say, you for sure have celiac, do my blood work again, stop eating it. So I stopped eating it. I talked to my doctor, the neurologist. say, you know what? I want to go off this diuretic. I think this is what's causing it. And so he's like, okay, I go off the diuretic. And I also at the same time, like, I'm also going to stop taking my Adderall because I don't want to be, I don't want to be on any medication. You know, I just want to be a healthy, normal person.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (20:34.095)
Well, long time being on Adderall, huh? Yeah.

Rachel Hunter (20:36.137)
a long time and I know you shouldn't be on it that long. mean, I know I should be having my heart checked. I mean, there's so many things that I'm aware of. But so I stopped medication in September, October, 2022. Fast forward, I started going to church again. I hadn't been to church much in the previous 10 years. I've always been Christian. I decided that I want to get rebaptized even as an adult and

I do that on January 14th. My cousin gets baptized with me at the same time. They actually had me assist in baptizing him. And I literally, was just like after that, I had this, I called it a spiritual awakening. I just felt, I felt more at peace. I didn't feel stressed, anxious. You know, I was just like, wanted to pray for people. Like anything I can pray for you about.

because the pastor at the church, he would talk about that. He would do that out to dinner, ask the waitress, is there anything I can pray for you about? And I was just like, I love that. And so me and my, a week later, Saturday, a week later, me and my daughter go and walk down to the park in the morning and we're walking back. And this part's so funny, I have to tell it because I see a man and I'm in Arizona and

landscaping out here, bricks and rocks all the time. And they're bringing bricks to the backyard. And I just went, I'm like, hey, know, anything I can pray for you about? And he didn't speak very good English, but he told me his name was Moses. I was like, oh, cool. And then he asks me if he can give me something. And I was like, sure. And he walks around to his glove box, and he comes back and he gives me a roll of quarters, a $10 roll of quarters. like, it was so sure I still have it.

because it was just so strange and he like, just felt compelled to do something nice. And the day goes on. I'm me and my daughter go walk down the street and I see one of our other neighbors, we had our dog with us and, and I say, just went over and we had done work for on their house before. And so I knew them, right. And I'm talking to her, same thing. I think I pray for you about we end up me and my oldest daughter, was 14 at the time go.

Rachel Hunter (22:59.095)
She's like, oh, come on in. We go in the house. We're talking like we're talking about God and the Bible. She gets her Bible. We're reading some stuff. Not a big deal. But however, my husband is not very religious. And I know I was acting different than what he was used to. Right. I am a hundred percent in a green. It's like I wasn't acting like my normal self. However, I was not a danger to myself. I was not a danger to anyone else. But my

I later found out that my mother-in-law had called the non-emergency police because she was worried. And they sent the crisis team, two women show up. This is Saturday the 21st, and they start asking questions. And I'm telling them, you know, how I'm feeling, different things. And then they say, well, if you feel like you're having symptoms of a UTI, you should go to Banner Thunderbird.

And at this time I'm like, is this like a sign from God? Like, I don't know. Like what, what is that? Like I had been, it was kind of strange. I had been having like the urge to pee and then it go away. I'm like, I don't know. Maybe I just go.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (24:08.305)
So you were describing those symptoms.

Rachel Hunter (24:10.879)
No.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (24:12.165)
Well, why would they I'm confused about the UTI part.

Rachel Hunter (24:13.511)
I don't know. I know that's what me and my counselor talked about that so much. like, I think because, and I've done some research where it says that if someone has a UTI, can cause symptoms of psychosis.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (24:29.645)
Okay, okay. they're... All right, this makes sense. So you've just been baptized, you felt called to pray in any other century, in any other culture. This would be recognized as religious devotion. But here in today's era, and with your experience with your husband and his background, his mother expresses concern, calls the crisis hotline.

Rachel Hunter (24:33.27)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (24:56.541)
and two women who are probably social workers, is that it? Come out and a crisis team. Okay. It's clearly you're not manic or psychotic, right? I mean, that just, that's obvious, but the fact that you're talking about God and you are engaging people in a way that suggests that, you want to pray for them or you want to connect with them, even though you're getting a really positive response.

Rachel Hunter (25:00.021)
Yeah, the crisis team. Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (25:26.137)
It's aligned with your religion, your belief system, and you've just been baptized. It's now interpreted through this pathological lens. They try to make a connection with the UTI. It just happens to be that maybe you were a little uncertain if you had those symptoms or not. So you're questioning whether this is spiritual and who would think you would go to the hospital, you'd get tested for a...

Rachel Hunter (25:36.567)
Hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (25:54.107)
a UTI, which is just like peeing in a cup, right? And then you can come home, right? I'm imagining that's what you're thinking.

Rachel Hunter (26:00.501)
Yeah, and you know, and I'm not gonna lie, like I, I don't know if it was mania. I don't know because like I did feel what they would call, you know, like euphoric. Like I felt like the way I feel like everybody wants to feel like not stressed, not anxious, you know, but I wasn't sleeping as much as I normally would, but it wasn't because I was just staying up. It was because I would go to sleep and then I would wake up when I woke up and I was just like, okay, like I'm good.

You know, like I was, was sleeping four or five hours. I like to get my sleep. So normally I sleep a lot more, you know, and I don't, I, so I don't know like what else obviously medically might have been going on with me. That was, there was more to it than just the spiritual aspect of it. And I know that and I can recognize that, but I also know that there was absolutely no reason I should have been coerced.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (26:58.266)
Yeah, so let's stop there because you bring up some, I think, important points. Yes, it is possible that there are legitimate medical problems, especially to somebody who is sensitive. It could be sensitive to certain medications, sensitive to who knows what, right? It could be artificial light. It could be changes in the environment. It could be something you ate. Obviously, you're not posing any risk.

Rachel Hunter (26:59.649)
to going to the hospital.

Rachel Hunter (27:22.753)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (27:25.746)
Yes, there are subtle shifts in your behavior, right? A little bit less sleep and improved mood, right? That's about it. It certainly meets no threshold for forced hospitalization. It doesn't even meet a threshold for psychiatric intervention, but it may be a first step in meeting with a professional to evaluate. But boy, I mean, certainly there's nothing about that behavior.

Rachel Hunter (27:31.733)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (27:42.775)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (27:52.151)
you

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (27:55.335)
that would alarm me as a clinical psychologist for 20 years. I mean, I'm not going to have concern for your wellbeing and nor should anybody else. So this is where we see that subtle shifts or shifts in behavior, even if they're positive, like you're feeling better and you don't need as much sleep, can be interpreted through a disease model, through a pathological lens that now puts you in a vulnerable position that threatens your freedom and liberty. Take us from there, you go to the hospital,

to check for a UTI.

Rachel Hunter (28:25.505)
So yeah, so I go to Banner and those women follow us there, the crisis women, and then wait with me while my husband's parking the car and go in and I just let my husband do all the talking when he get in. I'm like, I don't know what's really going on. Cause I could tell something still wasn't right about like the whole situation with those women coming there and everything.

We go, we get back into like the emergency area. They have me pee in a cup. And then my husband's there and I'm tired because I told you I hadn't really been sleeping. And so I'm trying to go, trying to sleep and he gets up to, and I thought he just got up to go outside, but he ended up leaving because we had our two kids at home and my mother-in-law was with them. And, but I kind of like come to it like,

kind of wake up, I wasn't fully asleep, I was kind of like in and out. And I'm like, he's not here. I'm like, where is he? So I get up to go like, go out the emergency room area to like see like, where is he? And I go outside, he's not outside. So I turn back around to come back in and there's a police officer with a canine dog right there. And I just go by him. Well, then they start following me. And I go back into like the emergency room area. And I'm like,

frazzled at this point, because I'm like, I don't know what's going on. And I go back and at the nurse's station, there's a nurse there. And I went up to her and like, like put my hand on her on her arm. And I was like, you're like the urine, the urine's at the end of my bed, like my urine sample or whatever. Just like telling her because the cop with the canines following like kind of aggressively following me. And the nurse was kind of like, like what's wrong? He ends up even grabbing me. It's like pull me like away.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (30:18.035)
Why would a cop with a canine be in a hospital?

Rachel Hunter (30:22.743)
at the hospital in the first place? I don't know. I would love to have that answer. so I end up, so they, you know, I go back over to my bed, whatever, they put a one-to-one. So I have somebody sitting there with me, making sure that I don't, I don't know, get up and do anything else. And after a little bit of time, whatever, they end up wheeling me back to go take me into another room. And they're not really telling me what's going on either.

And so they wanted me to change into scrubs or whatever, hospital clothes. And they wanted me to do it where there's like five people in the room. And I'm like, and some of are men. I'm like, yeah, no.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (31:06.099)
So Rachel, I'm sorry, I have to stop here because it feels like you're treated like you're under arrest and you're a prisoner when you voluntarily walk into a healthcare center. Now, I want, people are, might be questioning like, possibly this is an isolated incident, is there more to this? I'm telling you, I've been involved in this system for 30 years. This is not an isolated incident. This is standard. Police can involve themselves in psychiatric, in what someone else to,

Rachel Hunter (31:16.757)
Mm-hmm. I know.

Rachel Hunter (31:27.639)
Hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (31:35.732)
determines to be a psychiatric emergency. You can be treated like a prisoner the moment someone deems your mental capacity to be something that deviates from potentially normal, right? You can be forced into incarceration in a psychiatric hospital, not based on any clear evidence, but based on just other people's reports of concern. And obviously, we know the problems around this. Now, this is again, a human rights issue. So you

Rachel Hunter (32:03.959)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (32:05.329)
you're actually coerced. You're not even told what they're evaluating, which to me violates your freedoms. It violates principles that are provided to you by the Constitution. And you haven't even had a doctor evaluate you yet at this point. So it's really important we know what our rights are. And in this situation, your rights are violated.

Rachel Hunter (32:23.895)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (32:33.399)
this one in beginning. Yeah, so I end up the woman lets me, I change and I'm in a room, like an air mattress bed. I don't wanna go to sleep because I'm like, what the heck is going on? You know, I'm feeling very strange. Like everybody's acting kind of like weird, like not giving me any information, but I do end up falling asleep. And this is probably late.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (32:35.035)
Okay, take us from there.

Rachel Hunter (33:00.001)
I mean, it's probably two, three in the morning at this point, because this was in the evening when I went. And I wake up and I'm being wheeled out of the hospital to an ambulance. And I'm like, where am I going? And they tell me that I'm going to another hospital voluntarily. And I'm like, OK.

I didn't really understand. And so that I'm asking the ambulance guy when we're going and he didn't really obviously have any information for me though, the transport. But they ended up taking me to this hospital called Phoenix Medical Psychiatric Hospital. And it's one of eight facilities. It's the only one in Arizona. The rest are in Indiana and one in Texas and Houston.

And that's really where it began, the lies. I mean, it started at Banner, but I think of it like they're just the feeding. They just feed these other hospitals. And I had state insurance at the time. so, government insurance, so they already know that they can just keep billing that. And at this Phoenix hospital,

I'm confused, they bring me in a room and like this is gonna be my room I'm sharing with this other girl, make me change out of my clothes into their clothes again, because I was back in my clothes and which I never saw my shirt again. They steal people's clothes at this hospital all the time. You can read the reviews and see that it's the things that are happening there. And.

I'm pretty much just, you're pretty much just like kind of dropped off and okay, change into this. And here's the common area where everybody's sitting by everybody. I like maybe 10 people playing cards. There's a TV in there.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (35:05.147)
At this point, tell me about the level of information that's been provided to you and your ability to consent into this.

Rachel Hunter (35:11.894)
Nothing.

Nothing, nothing had been provided to me. It wasn't until after all of this that I was able to start to gather up my medical records and try to really piece things together, which I did see in my medical records that I was injected with an anti-psychotic at Banner and it had to have been while I was sleeping based off the timeframe when it was charted.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (35:37.191)
They forced injected you with an anti-psychotic without your consent.

Rachel Hunter (35:40.695)
Yep, and I only knew about it because I saw it in my medical records when I finally got him. And so I'm at this psych hospital. There's no doctors. The staff is behind these glass windows. You need something, you ask them. They treat you like trash and they're rude to you. They just don't take care of anybody that's in there. I don't even know how to...

explain it except for that. It's like, yeah. And, and I'm like thinking like, this is crazy, right? Granted, I have celiac too, which I banner knows that I make sure everybody knows that I have celiac. And they wouldn't feed me gluten free food. They, there was no, there was no sit down with a doctor and talk about anything. I was never told that they were

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (36:11.892)
Little where.

Rachel Hunter (36:38.123)
I guess, diagnosing me bipolar or what was going on. A nurse practitioner went around and most of the people still wore masks. Most of the workers there were still wearing masks because of the COVID. And this nurse practitioner was just walk around and, how are doing? Like, I'm good. Any thoughts of hurting yourself? No, I haven't had, no, none of those. And, okay. Did you take, did you take your meds?

No, I'm not on any meds. And then a social worker comes around or the med, whatever the med time was, I can't remember because each place had their own little way that they did meds. Some you went and lined up this one, they just went around to each patient because there were like 10, 12 of us in there. And you your medication, was like, I'm not on any medication. They never even told me what they were trying to prescribe me. It was Abilify.

I was respectful to, no thank you, I'm good. You know, like I don't need anything. And even talks about it in my petition. I'm like, will heal me if I need healed. Like I'm okay.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (37:50.824)
Now that's going to be viewed as a delusion. Let's be clear.

Rachel Hunter (37:53.461)
Religious delusions. yeah, it's all over my petitions And I realized some of these other people in there. We have older people there was one woman And her name was Sonia and she was in a wheelchair her hand had a splint on it Because something happened to her wrist her hands were turning purple. She was losing circulation These nurses aren't doing anything. I'm telling her I'm like, okay here Sonia lift your hand up like wiggle your fingers a little bit

She's having hallucinations. She'll be sitting there all scared. I'm like, what's wrong? She's like, there's a snake. I'm like, nope, Sonia. It's just, look, me, you, that person, that person comforting these people, helping another woman to go to the bathroom because nobody would help her. Found out an elderly man who was in a wheelchair, his roommate ended up telling me they left him on the toilet for an hour and a half before they went and helped him. I mean, the abuse and neglect going on in this facility was

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (38:47.87)
abuse.

Rachel Hunter (38:52.424)
Unreal.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (38:53.556)
Rachel, I want to ask more questions specifically about your case. And you're absolutely correct. The level of care in these facilities are abusive. At the very least, it's a prison-like environment where people are really dehumanized. But I'm interested in the spiritual aspect because I've recently wrote an article on my sub stack on how various spiritual awakenings in the psychiatric system are.

understood and diagnosed as bipolar disorder that has led to situations just like the one you're on. Not everyone's forced hospitalized. This is an unfortunate situation that is started by your mother-in-law and supported in some way by your husband. But I want to talk a little bit about that spiritual aspect of you, this awakened, this heightened state to like...

Rachel Hunter (39:43.382)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (39:48.628)
connection to all things and love for other people. I want to know how the system responded to this experience because it's very clear to me that without it, like if you weren't openly praying and you weren't happier, then you would have never been in this position.

Rachel Hunter (40:07.986)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it really is. and I mean, I'm not going to lie. Like it, it made it so when I did finally get out after all this, this whole thing lasted 38 days, um, multiple different hospitals because that one petitioned me, sent me to the next place. They helped me for how many days they could till they sent me to the next place.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (40:22.271)
You were in the hospital for 38 days?

Rachel Hunter (40:33.335)
And the petitions just kept building and lying.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (40:34.389)
This feels like a spiritual attack to me.

Rachel Hunter (40:38.647)
It is, and I know that, but by the time I got out, like I had to make sure I could save my family and try to understand what was happening. Granted, at that point I was being forced on an anti-psychotic. So that changed the way, who I was a million percent. I was almost like afraid to go to church because...

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (40:57.93)
course.

Rachel Hunter (41:03.443)
I was like, I don't know. Like my husband was scared about it because he just doesn't know what's going on because he was in the military and he's very much, he listened to the doctors and you know, the doctors were very much like, she has this. She needs medication. If she doesn't, this is just going to keep happening and everything. And he's just like, what the heck? I don't know what's going on. You know? And so I, the whole time I felt like I was good. Like I.

I had my relationship with God, I prayed. I was just like, okay, God, you put me in this position for a reason. And I still to this day believe that. I believe I was put, this happened to me so that I could be the voice for so many others that don't want to or have the power to be the voice. And nobody's ever gonna shut me up. That's one thing, if people who know me, they know, you're not gonna shut me up.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:58.848)
So I love what you're saying because I see the world in the same way, right? I do see the world spiritually. I'm a spiritual person. I do believe God is intervening in our lives. I do think there's a purpose to our lives. But I'm interested in the legal and scientific aspect of these things, right? Because we're gonna try to protect other people from going down the same path.

How are they legally and medically able to continue to transfer you from hospital to hospital?

Rachel Hunter (42:33.239)
So at that hospital, Phoenix Medical Psychiatric, they, because I wouldn't take medication, the social worker told me, she said, okay, well, if you don't take the medication, then we're gonna have to petition you. At this point, I don't know what that means really.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (42:49.511)
Okay. All right. So let's stop there because I want everyone to hear this clearly. If you take their drugs, you can get out. If you in any way dispute the notion of the medical condition that they're assigning to you, you know, the one without any objective medical tests, the one that basically is hearsay from a mother-in-law, this can happen to anyone out there folks.

Rachel Hunter (42:59.061)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (43:18.005)
You start talking about God. It is a diagnosis. It's a symptom of a diagnosis for these material atheists. And what they will do is you, but legally they can imprison you until you take their drugs. Once you take their drugs, who knows what's going to happen next, right? What does it feel like for you to be on those drugs? Because it alters consciousness.

Rachel Hunter (43:37.643)
Thank you.

Rachel Hunter (43:45.171)
If I wouldn't have been able to get off of them, was February till June, I was able to get off the court order treatment in June, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you today because that's what it turned into.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (43:56.341)
short ordered treatment.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (44:00.598)
the state can force you to take mood and mind altering drugs. Okay, explain the story for us.

Rachel Hunter (44:06.455)
Well, they did. Yep. Yep. So, um, so I actually have the original petition, um, from that hospital, the petitioner, her name's Susan White, never met her, don't even know who she is. Um, and then it says a danger to self danger to others, persistently or acutely disabled and is the person is unwilling to undergo voluntary evaluation as evidenced by the following facts. Here's the facts.

Refused medication, medical and psychiatric at Phoenix Neuropsychiatric Hospital where she was admitted for voluntary treatment. That's the first thing. Rachel lacks insight and judgment to consent to voluntary treatment. Rachel, here we go. The person is believed to be in need of supervision, care and treatment because of the following facts. Recent religious delusions.

manic behaviors with pressured speech and tangential thought processes. I've always talked fast. Like I have my whole life. That's who I am. I've been told so many times slow down, slow down time. like, I don't know how I'm just fast. gotta go. Previously, Rachel was diagnosed with bipolar. Lie. That's a lie. Straight lie. They didn't have my medical records. And if they did, they would have known that that wasn't true.

but they just put this on this petition. And oh, and then this, prior to voluntary inpatient psychiatric hospital transfer on 1-22, she assaulted an emergency department nurse. Because remember, I touched that nurse and told her the urine was on my bed. When this came about, I'm like, assaulted a nurse. I'm like, I would never do that. It wasn't until I got my medical records that I understood what they were trying to use as saying that.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (46:01.143)
This is infuriating.

Rachel Hunter (46:02.423)
I assaulted a nurse. Judgment is not intact, is they said. That's it. So that was the start of the petition. And then they transferred me to the next facility. Two cops showed up. I had been at this place for like five days. And two police officers show up and they're like, yeah, we're here for Rachel. I kid you not, I didn't know where I was going. I didn't know what was, I didn't know if I was going to jail. I was like, I'll go. I don't care, take me.

Like, get me out of here. Nope, I was going to the next place to be held there over the whole weekend because the 72 hour hold, weekends don't count because the judges don't work on weekends. So if they pick you up and they transfer you on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, those are just, I guess, I don't know, free days that they charge the insurance for, but for your psychiatric hold, those don't count. So...

because I again refused medication there, which that place, oh my gosh, it was a big room. It's called UPC. I can't remember what it stands for, but because they have different names, there's like multiple names for these places. And on one side you have the men, on the other side you have the women. And everybody's sitting like a movie theater type setup.

in like old hospital recliner recliner chairs. That's what you get all day, all night. There's no beds. There's no nothing like that. That's where you're at. And there's one bathroom for everyone to use, men and women with a metal toilet in there and one sink. I had to change into paper scrubs as soon as I got there. Even though I came from another facility that kept getting a hole ripped in the crotch. So I'd have to change my scrubs out all the time. Mind you, I'm in a group.

a room full of men to trying to come over to the women's area, the workers trying to keep them out, watching people who are getting upset and then these workers grabbing them, throwing them like against the wall, almost like hog tying the way they carried one guy into a room and put him in a room and he's just freaking out in there. I'm, and I kind of call it out when I see it. I'm like, what is going on? This is not acceptable.

Rachel Hunter (48:25.399)
for you guys to be treating people like this, which they did not like that. So I didn't take the medication there, on to the next place.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:34.294)
So they're just gonna continue to transfer you until you comply. And so if you agree that you're meant to...

Rachel Hunter (48:37.173)
until I comply. And I never complied. So they forced it on me, is what happened.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:43.254)
Okay, if you agree that you're mentally ill, then you're better. You're under their treatment. If you dispute the diagnosis and refuse to take mood and mind altering drugs, well then it's clear you lack insight, poor judgment, and you're mentally ill. And if you resist long enough, they're eventually just gonna force it upon you. listen, what kind of defense do you have? You're mentally ill.

Rachel Hunter (48:49.537)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Rachel Hunter (49:00.993)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (49:06.807)
and

Rachel Hunter (49:10.229)
Yeah, well, and actually the funny thing about it is my dad was alive at the time. My dad testified on my behalf. I managed at the time I was managing an Airbnb property. I still actually do. The owner of that Airbnb property who used to be a professor, this man speaks six languages, like realtor, like owns properties all over, picked me to manage it after.

not really even knowing me because he could tell that I was intelligent and could handle that. He testified on behalf of me.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (49:44.312)
Yeah, it's clear you're high functioning. It's clear you meet no criteria for danger to yourself or others. Right? This is why I questioned how much of this is a spiritual attack. Because you're seeing this kind of awakening. I think across the country, I'm seeing it with my clients, I'm seeing it in people who reach out to me. And I'm hearing the same thing over and over. People who have not awakened people who don't have that spiritual connection to a higher power. They're

Rachel Hunter (49:50.955)
What?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (50:14.209)
they're confused by it and they see that they believe that there is something wrong with me. And then they turn to the medical system for that degree of control. It seems like the crime you committed was praying for other people and speaking about God.

Rachel Hunter (50:23.223)
sorry.

Rachel Hunter (50:28.521)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (50:31.191)
Was there anything else that was going on? I mean, I'm sorry, sleeping five hours is just not enough to say you need to be forced into a hospital.

Rachel Hunter (50:39.403)
Well, the funny thing about it is when they actually, after the hearing and you know, the judge agreed that I was, it didn't, I was no longer a dangerous to self, a danger to others. I was just persistently or acutely disabled. So they use danger to self, danger to others in the beginning to push things through, but then just to make it to where persistently or acutely disabled.

But then that was no longer a danger.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (51:12.481)
You know, I think they mess with the wrong person here because this is how I find you interesting. Even when we're talking about your history, there's always been this kind of, you know, sense of right and wrong and moral justice. And you're also very investigative. So when you're telling us a story of some of the things you've been involved in, like advocating for family court as an example, I'm sure what has happened after this experience is that you have taken that passion

Rachel Hunter (51:27.767)
Mm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (51:41.825)
for justice and fairness and rights, as well as your investigative prowess. And you probably started digging and trying to advocate. Let's go to part two of the story. What's occurred post-2023 since you've gone through this?

Rachel Hunter (51:56.023)
Yeah.

Rachel Hunter (51:59.477)
Yeah. So when I first got out, because I was forced on those, was in Vega is what they were forcing me on injections of in Vega, pretty, a really high dose cost $4,000 a month for the insurance. after I was like getting off of those, I got a part-time job, working at Dutch Bros because I needed to do something. And, you know, I really had to focus on my family because I was about to lose my family.

because of all this, because my husband didn't know what the hell was going on. And I ended up starting to work for my aunt. Well, it's my husband's aunt who owns an IV clinic. It just opened and she had me run the front desk, prime IV. I started really learning about the different IV vitamins and all the different nutrients and nutrient deficiencies and medication that causes certain nutrient deficiencies. And I just started realizing I'm like,

There's so much more to this. And I would constantly go back and I'd look at the Google reviews from that hospital, the psych hospital, and they were just, they were terrible. And they were like what I was dealing with, but it was family members talking about their loved one that was in there and what happened to them and how they couldn't get ahold of them. And now they're worse and all this. And I'm like, you know what? I connected with a couple of people. I'm like, I'm going to start a group. I'm going to start a group on Facebook and I'm going to try to expose this piece of shit hospital.

because I realized it wasn't just that hospital. This company who owned that hospital owned four in Indiana, one in Houston, and I don't remember where the other one was, but, and all the reviews. I would pull up each one, all the reviews. It's the same thing. I'm like, they know what they're doing to people and it's happening on such a wide scale with these hospitals. I'm like,

I'm going to create a group and I'm going to try to bring people together. My initial thought was trying to get a class action lawsuit because any lawyer I called, even my public defender, he told me he's like, you should get a hold of a lawyer. Like a lawyer that could help me because he knew how messed up it was, what was happening to me. No lawyer wanted to touch it. No matter what I gave them, there's not enough money in malpractice cases unless you're severely injured, like losing an arm or a leg or dead.

Rachel Hunter (54:23.169)
They just, they don't want to take a case like this. And so I was like, well, I can bring awareness to help maybe keep some people out of there or help other people figure out what to do if their loved ones in there. And that's what I did. I created the group. it started gaining traction. People just started finding it. I mean, I left it public because I was like, I got nothing to hide. And I found out pretty quickly that the CEO of the hospital knew about my group staff.

staff was joining the group and privately messaging me after they had left working there, giving me information. I mean, I've got pages and pages from nurses, behavioral health therapists, somebody in administration, talking about the things that were happening. And these were mostly in the Indiana location, different Indiana locations. And, you know, so I just, I just kept sharing things when somebody would be in there and they'd like, my daughter's in here, you know.

I have, because I'm the admin of the group, I make them answer a few questions to keep the spam out so I can sometimes preview what they're gonna say and see who it is. I would private message them depending, but I start telling them, like, what do you call up there? Order this voice recorder. This is before the iPhones had the easy record button, but record every call, do this, tell them to do this, just telling them, tell them when your son, daughter, whoever's in there.

document every single thing that's going on if they can, if they can get pens or crayons and paper and, you know, make sure you get your records. Do this, you know, just really trying to help people.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (56:06.444)
Well, can I ask you, was a pattern emerging? Like, it was your story very similar to what you were hearing from other people?

Rachel Hunter (56:14.825)
Yeah, somewhat. A lot of the people that were in there, they were in there more voluntary than like I was, you know, like they were going through something and they felt like they needed help and they felt like they could go there to get it or, know, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's one woman that is out here in Arizona and her son is autistic. This hospital specifically, it's

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (56:31.138)
to go a safe place and they can get the support they needed.

Rachel Hunter (56:43.541)
Neuropsychiatric Hospitals, LLC is the company. And they specifically like say, we're medical and mental health. Like we're all in one. No, they're not. No, they're not. They send people out. Fire department comes in, takes them out to the hospital if they need something. And

What did you ask me again?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (57:07.832)
Well, there were a pattern was emerging in the cases that you were hearing from the Facebook group.

Rachel Hunter (57:09.911)
Yes, oh yeah. And she said, and so her son, also, oh, they specialize in people who are autistic or whatever. And so that was part of her reasoning for having her son go there when he was having issues. Or I don't remember exactly what it was, because I've talked to so many people. And she said, after her son came out, he was so much worse. Like she, I mean, she, and he was an adult. It just.

having the hardest time. He's finally now, and that was before I was in there. So I think it was in 2022. He's finally now, she said, doing much better with all different, you know, types of therapy and things that they've been doing. But some of these people, mean, one woman I met out here, I made her an admin in the group. She, her dad was transferred to one in Indiana. He had, I want to say it was dementia and was just

not doing good. And he said something about like, I want to go with Jesus or something along the lines that so the hospital transferred him to the psych hospital. They neglected him so bad that it was like within a day or two after he got out of there, he died. And a lot I've connected with a lot of people from these specific hospitals that their loved one died shortly after getting out of there. They transfer him out before they pass away.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (58:30.563)
Yeah.

Yeah, I understand. mean, it's horrific and I hope this is a wake up call to many people. I want to inquire about Proposition 409. Can you explain to us what that is?

Rachel Hunter (58:46.603)
Yeah, what it was because it passed. I didn't look into it early enough, but Valley Wise Hospital is the last hospital I was at and the one that did more in-depth petition. They had different doctors actually like review what the other doctor said. And then they put their, it was more realistic the way they did it than this other one. But Valley Wise is a county hospital.

Here in Arizona, there's multiple locations. I was at two different ones because they transferred me to another one. They actually have the courthouse, the mental health courthouse is inside the hospital and not the hospital that when I had my hearing because they transferred me the day before. And that's, think that's our only county hospitals here is Valley wise. So I had seen all these signs.

few months ago about like vote yes on Prop 409. I'm like, and then mental health and you know, I'm like, what is this? And so I decided to look it up and Prop 409 was a measure for Valley Wise Hospital to receive $898 million by way of bonds, increasing our property taxes over the next 30 years at

11 cents per hundred dollar assessed valuation, which I learned isn't the actual valuation of the house. It's the assessed, which is a lesser whatever, either way. I don't want them getting any of my money.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:00:26.883)
So they're increasing taxpayers' property taxes to fund the mental health industry. And it's going to go to the specific hospital.

Rachel Hunter (01:00:31.285)
Hmm.

No, it's, it's, yeah, it's not even to fund mental health. It's, it's for Valley wise hospital to build really the bond. When I, when I looked more into it, once I got my ballot, they can do whatever they want with this money. They used these signs and mental health, you know, like mental health reform. This is what we're going to do.

build more beds for mental health because people don't understand that it's not because there's not enough beds. That's not the problem in there. They think that, my gosh, yeah, I wanna help people who have mental health issues. Yeah, I'm gonna vote yes, it's a small amount. Yeah, it is. And I caught onto it too late to really start talking enough about it, I feel like to make much of a difference.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:01:17.581)
such ignorance.

Rachel Hunter (01:01:28.427)
But I started doing more digging and looking into the CEO and the board and the CEO. I'm like, this is Google's telling me, he just got, he's was projected to get a pay raise on October 25th to $1.3 million this year. And I'm like, okay. And the board approved it. Who's on the board. Okay. One of the people on the board is a nonprofit out here called stars. Now.

I think that they're a great company. They came into the hospital, the people who came in and did their little thing with the groups, they seemed really great, genuine. I was like, I like this company. But now when I'm like, oh, you're on the board, yeah, 100 % of conflict.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:02:10.458)
It's a conflict, right? The more people that they can identify as mentally ill, the more money they make.

Rachel Hunter (01:02:20.191)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and the thing is too, you have, how do you have on the board a Valley Wise Health Hospital, whatever they call it, on the board, somebody who's contracted with the hospital to go in for the services. And the board is who decides that the CEO gets the raise. Well, who on the board is going to say no when he's going to make the decision on if they're contracted with the hospital?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:02:43.268)
Yeah, of course. Right.

Rachel Hunter (01:02:49.751)
But I wanted the solid proof of how much he was making. So I did a records request. And it was hard to figure out who to get to, but I was like, I'll just do a regular records request for public records request. And they got me to the right person. I got it a couple days before the actual election showing. Sure enough, 1.3 million this year.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:03:13.486)
It's almost unimaginable that a publicly funded healthcare facility that somebody could be making over a million dollars.

Rachel Hunter (01:03:23.903)
Yeah, well, how about this? Not only that, but I dug in more to the vote yes on Prop 409 campaign. Cause I'm like, I don't see any vote no on Prop 409. What is this? So you can see on the Arizona treasury website, nonprofits and who's donating to them and then what they're doing with that money. And so lo and behold.

Valley wise hospital donated 350,000 to vote yes on prop 409. And then what do you know that in that same one, two different printing companies. so you donated 350,000 so that they could print all these vote yes talking about mental health reform. So you could manipulate the voters to vote for this. my gosh. It's like,

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:03:54.68)
Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:04:16.34)
So, so typical.

Rachel Hunter (01:04:19.031)
How is that legal? How is it?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:04:21.208)
Yeah, I'm you know what? I'm at this point Rachel where I'm I'm blaming us. I'm blaming the voters. You know if you are going to be fooled and tricked by manipulation by marketing tactics and you're going to vote on something based on some decreased stigma campaign or improve mental health care or expand the medical industrial complex. Shame on you.

Rachel Hunter (01:04:28.375)
Hmm?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:04:48.74)
You know, we need to wake up and understand what this fraud is. And your story is an important story because it allows everybody to reflect on how easy it is for you to be diagnosed with a psychiatric illness and how easy it is to lose your rights. And for those out there who are spiritual, understand what that means when you report that in the medical system.

Rachel Hunter (01:04:48.844)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:05:16.324)
To them, it's a religious delusion. There is no God. There is nothing outside of the material. If you feel any interconnectedness as cultures have done throughout the history of mankind, indigenous cultures, cultures across the world, it's in the United States in this medical paradigm, this biomedical atheist materialist paradigm.

where any connection to the divine is gonna be viewed out as a medical illness. don't, you can't tell me it's not spiritual. There's not spiritual forces involved in this. We're not stupid enough to believe that the 1 % of reality that we have, our five senses can pick up that there's nothing, something beyond that. And anyone who is connected to, you know, anything spiritually beyond us, including each other recognizes that. I think I saw a recent poll that

showed that like 85 to 90 percent of Americans believe in the spiritual dimensions and believe in higher forces, right? Like it's something that is innate within us in our connection to all of nature. So you can see the powerful forces trying to deny your divinity and your connection to God and how the psychiatric industrial complex can be set up as part of this spiritual battle. So be very mindful of how you communicate it because

they have the ability to, I mean, even use the police, know, as a form of a police state to like intervene and anything. This is why I talk about science. I do believe in science, not in the trust the science, another marketing term to influence the population, like as if it's something that you again must worship like a religion. I talk about science as a process, something that's empirical, something that can protect the rights of the individual.

You it. You can't tell me that there's a condition called bipolar disorder or other other conditions and you have no way to identify it or to prove it other than you said so. Or you can make up something around judgment or insight, right? It's all bullshit. It's pseudo scientific nonsense. And I have no respect for the individual practitioners.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:07:29.071)
who support it as if it's viable science and it's a medical authority. It is an illegitimate medical authority. I don't know what else people need to wake up. Does it have to happen to you, a family member? From an informed consent perspective, you can understand why I started the Conscious Clinician Collective and we need more professionals across specialties to join the Conscious Clinician Collective so we can fund and support people to defend themselves in situations like this.

we have to be able to have not only like a political apparatus and a legal apparatus, but we have to be able to gather all the professionals who are able to speak and testify against the pseudoscientific nature of all this. Because you can just pull any doctor who said, yeah, he's got bipolar disorder. Why does he have bipolar disorder? Because I said he has bipolar disorder. Right? Like it makes no sense. Like it's circular reasoning.

Rachel Hunter (01:08:22.369)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (01:08:29.971)
And I think they, for me, I think they used what I told you about in 2017 and 2018 as that was my depression, right? This was my manic that many years later. And so they, they tried to like play those off each other. And I'm like, whoa, that was, I was drinking. What are you talking about? That, was.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:08:49.701)
But even take the drinking out of it, Rachel, I know that was unique to your situation. We have a lot of people in the country who use alcohol or abuse alcohol or use drugs. In fact, they push it on us. They try to legalize all types of drugs that are gonna be mood and mind altering, like pushing weed on the entire population. They push alcohol. I mean, you try to drug the entire population to some extent, and then when you have responses to that, they're gonna label you as a mental illness. So yes, but there's something about being human.

Rachel Hunter (01:08:54.346)
Yeah, what?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:09:18.437)
that you go through hard times, then 100 % of the population is gonna meet criteria for a major depressive disorder. And if talking about God is mania, if like being able to go through a period of time where you're only sleeping like five hours is manic, being happy, know, feeling connected to other people is mania. Well, I'm bipolar disorder. Here I am, you know, come and get me, right? Because that can be arbitrarily applied.

Rachel Hunter (01:09:20.844)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (01:09:25.27)
Hmm.

Rachel Hunter (01:09:40.695)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:09:46.107)
to a large percentage of the population. Understand it, it's a weapon. It's a weapon of war in my opinion.

Rachel Hunter (01:09:52.989)
I know, you know, there's one thing too I wanted to tell you that I thought was so funny in part of the petition. Is there, it's talking about, so there's a reasonable prospect that the patient psychiatric illness and psychotic slash manic symptoms are treatable and will improve by combined inpatient outpatient treatment if she complies with treatment team recommendations. Here's the funny part of note.

The patient did make a statement that appeared to be psychotic on my interview. However, there could be truth to this.

What? I'm like, why would you put that in there? What did I say that there could be to? There's a lot of things that could be truth to if you want. They talked about, in my petition, they talked about me speaking out about the family court, Department of Child Safety, that I know the judges, that I was supposed to be meeting with a member of the House. They even specifically brought that because I told the doctor this stuff because I'm like, I'm not helping.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:10:30.232)
What?

well it's statement

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:10:53.561)
But they thought that could be a psychotic symptom when there was truth to it.

Rachel Hunter (01:10:58.567)
Right. So it's like some of the things and like if you're interested, I'll send the Dropbox. You look through it. It's very intriguing. Even my counselor, he's like he wanted to do a case study on it because he just can't understand. I sent him all my records once I got them. None of it. None of it makes sense when you put it all together.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:11:16.443)
This is typical. I'm sorry for your counselor who doesn't understand. What are you talking about you don't understand? This happens every single day.

Rachel Hunter (01:11:23.543)
He was newer. I was one of his early patients in 2021. He got his master's like older and he's an older gentleman too. And it was after me that he even started seeing more and more even women coming to him because of what's happening in the family court system and their kids. Like I opened his eyes to a lot of the things that were going on and

He worked for Jewish Family Children's Services. know, like they're big out here and he wasn't getting the information. I think that things aren't, people are afraid to share. They believe what they're being told about who they are. I struggle with it still. Like, there something wrong with me? Like what, you know, I don't know.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:12:08.922)
Right, I mean...

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:12:19.608)
It's the vulnerability of the human experience and the susceptibility we have to influence and brainwashing. you know, that's certainly another episode that I should probably do on, how we can be influenced and how, we can actually create identities or influence behavior. That's something that's not aligned with who we truly are. that's, mean, that's known through our own government and MK ultra experiments, like the

Rachel Hunter (01:12:47.411)
Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:12:48.848)
The mind control experiments are very, very interesting. And it's why you need to have such a high ethical standard in something that you call mental health, because you understand that when somebody's in a vulnerable state, that could be stress, it could be sleep deprivation, that you are more easily influenced. A new reality can be created and behavior can be influenced. That's without drugs.

Rachel Hunter (01:13:14.473)
And being hyper aware, I just listened to the podcast that you did with the veteran. And my sister's a veteran and some of her stuff started in the military too. But when she's talked about being hyper aware, because that was my thing too, is like, I felt very hyper aware and...

I was seeing what was happening and I remember being at Valley Wise Hospital and like just looking around and saying it out loud, even I was like, we don't have a mental health crisis. It's being created. And this was before I listened to your podcast. Okay. I'm like watching them give these people all these medications. I had my friend bring in printouts of federal and state patient rights. And this is at Valley Wise Hospital. And I was handing it out to all the patients in there. I'm like, know your rights. You don't have to take this medication until they force you.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:13:46.938)
Yes.

Rachel Hunter (01:14:07.049)
I watched a man who was using a walker, he's in his 50s, drooling, not showering, not talking. He saw me with other people and he was paying attention and he started refusing his medication. I didn't know it at the time. Next thing you know, he's not using his walker. He's showered.

He's having full on conversation. He's talking to me. He's crying talking to me. He did time in prison for killing a police officer that he said he didn't, he didn't mean to, but he did. He said he felt like a terrible person, like all of these things. And it was because he stopped taking the medication that he was able to be himself and vulnerable and talk. But guess what? Once he had that full earring, boom, forced back on it.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:14:51.376)
Well, I'm to it up on this. It's because the drugs themselves that they're providing, they're not medicines. They're food and mind altering chemicals, synthetic chemicals made in a factory. There's a couple of books that I think are really important on this by Dr. Peter Bregan. One is Your Drug May Be Your Problem, How

Rachel Hunter (01:15:03.22)
No.

Rachel Hunter (01:15:07.03)
you

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:15:19.376)
how and why to stop taking psychiatric medications. This is by Peter Bregan and David Cohen. And then medication madness, which is the role of psychiatric drugs in causes of violence, suicide and crime. If you've listened to this podcast, obviously you know the real legitimate problems with commonly prescribed psychiatric drugs on your health, your wellbeing, your mental health and your state of mind. And so to be forced into something like this is a crime against humanity.

I hope that people can wake up listening to this and take steps to at least communicate it with your neighbor. This stuff needs to, this is information that needs to spread. There's not enough people who are awake. The professionals themselves are asleep. They're brainwashed. They don't, they put little work into understanding this other than what they've been told in the educational system. The rigor in these

certification programs for like social workers and counselors and nurse practitioners is very low. They're just trying to push out really workers on the assembly line that kind of push out the drugs and continue to repeat the same propaganda that was provided for them. So I'm hoping that that a story like this at least can help you know, one person listens to this you tell three people, right? And that's how you kind of spread these things. So Rachel, I'm so grateful for your willingness to tell the story. You're a fighter. I love your spirit.

Rachel Hunter (01:16:23.254)
Mm-hmm.

Rachel Hunter (01:16:35.766)
Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:16:42.894)
I love everything that you're doing. I'm so sorry that you went through this, but I know we're speaking to a lot of other people who themselves or a family member have undergone something else and you just blindly accept the recommendations because the medical authority told you this authority that, you know, certainly has not passed even the minimum amount of requirements for safety.

Rachel Hunter (01:17:03.703)
Your consent is not required by Rob Weepon. He's in my group and he is. I read his book, obviously after this. And I think that every, it should be a mandatory book for people to read. Your consent is not required because it doesn't matter who you are. Like you are susceptible to this happening to you. It doesn't matter if you're a CEO, you're in the military, it does not matter.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:17:08.41)
he is. great. Rob's great.

Rachel Hunter (01:17:32.629)
this can happen to you. doesn't have to be because you were praying for your neighbor. Whatever you did that they don't like, they can hospitalize you for it. takes two people to petition somebody. Two people. And mine was people who worked at the hospi-

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:17:47.502)
And the numbers are increasing. And that is not an accident. Rachel Hunter, I want to thank you for a radically genuine conversation.

Rachel Hunter (01:17:53.009)
Not okay.

Thank you.

Thank you. And thank you for your podcasts. It's helped me a lot in my life. And I share it with people in my group. I share it on my Facebook regularly when I come across one, I'm like, oh my gosh, you got to listen to this. And so thank you for what you're doing, because I don't know if you get enough recognition for what you're doing, but more people need to hear about it because you share so much information that is so valuable to people's everyday life.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:18:27.646)
thank you. So grateful for that.

Rachel Hunter (01:18:29.505)
Yeah.