Radically Genuine Podcast with Dr. Roger McFillin

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (00:01.826)
Welcome to the radically genuine podcast. I'm Dr. Roger McPhillen. Every 19 minutes someone in America dies from a drug overdose. 70 % of street drugs now contain fentanyl, a substance so deadly that users are dying on first contact. This isn't a drug crisis of the 1980s or even the opioid epidemic of the 2000s. This is something entirely different and deadlier. My guest today is Richard Tate. And if you've followed addiction treatment or the opioid crisis over the past two decades,

You've probably seen him. He's been featured on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, ABC's Nightline, CBS This Morning, and Entertainment Tonight. He was the addiction expert featured in the award-winning documentary Prescription Thugs. He's one of the most recognized voices in addiction treatment in America. But his authority doesn't come from academia or theory. He spent 25 years on what he calls one of the worst drug addicts he's ever saw.

smoking an ounce of cocaine daily, living on the streets of Los Angeles, sleeping on boats in Marina Del Rey. A UCLA graduate who was headed to law school before addiction derailed his life completely. 20 plus years sober, Richard built Cliffside Malibu from a six bed facility into an 83 bed treatment empire becoming the go to rehab for celebrities, executives, and high profile clients. He sold that in 2018.

But the exploding fentanyl crisis pulled him back. He's now executive chairman of the ultra luxury Carrara Treatment Wellness and Spa. Richard reopened specifically because in his words, today's drug landscape makes his 25 years of hardcore addiction look like child's play. And he's someone who understands both the broken childhood that creates addicts and the cultural forces, especially in Hollywood, that keep America in the grip of the worst addiction crisis in history.

It's going to be a conversation about survival, recovery, and what it takes to save lives in modern America. Richard Tate, welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast.

Richard Taite (02:08.341)
Doctor, I don't even know what to say other than I'm gonna need you to write on my tombstone, right? Because that was so beautiful. I don't have the words. I want that intro emailed to me.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:16.94)
Yes.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:24.29)
You got it. Well, you've earned it. You know, you certainly have gone through the challenging times in your life and I think you've seemed to have transformed that pain into wisdom. So let's just start with your story. I think it illuminates something a little bit larger about the addiction crisis in America. Can you take us back? I think it was your 12 year old self stealing pot from your father's drawer.

Richard Taite (02:44.095)
Yeah, you got most of it, but you know, the the undercurrent of it was, you know, my father was a rageaholic and he would beat us. And it was more than just the times. Right. I mean, I'm talking about with a cane, with a brass handle. I mean, we were getting it all the time and he had no friends, none. So I was the closest thing to him.

He didn't even like my other brothers. mean, this guy that this is why I'm the blame the parent guy. Okay. This happens two ways that you get addicted. get either a continuous trauma or a specific trauma. An example of a specific trauma would be losing a child. God forbid. Okay. Something horrific. Continuous trauma is you're a loser.

I'll give you something to cry about. And it goes on and on and on with the beatings. And then, you you've lied to yourself because at five years old, you think you're bad. You can't formulate, your frontal cortex isn't developed. You can't say to yourself, my parents are just stupid. You can't do it because remember how small you were?

Okay. And everything was so big. You're relying on these people for protection and shelter and food. I mean, if these people don't love you, then you must be bad. And then you're thinking this way throughout your, it's getting reinforced all the time. So, you know, your 45 year old self's being run in, but run by a five year old boy. Okay. And you don't even know how that happened. That's the lie. That's the lie.

I know I didn't answer your question, that I know.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (04:40.824)
Well, I think you started answering the question. talked about what you were going through at that time. So then you get exposed to drugs. What happens then in those situations?

Richard Taite (04:43.425)
Thank you.

Richard Taite (04:49.354)
So.

I never felt like I was enough because I had the model of someone who had to make you feel bad in order to make themselves feel good. And what that does is it generates more animosity around your peers. So for example, I'm the quarterback of my high school and I'm not getting invited anywhere. Nobody wants to hang out. I was the most unpopular quarterback of his high school of all time.

ever because I had no social skills. So what that did when I went ahead and stole pot from my dad for the first time as a 12 year old and smoked with my buddy Christopher on the side of his house, I stopped beating the shit out of myself. I stopped hating on myself because if nobody wants to be around you, okay, then

You, just reinforces the bad. So, you know, I end up at 16 years old. My dad tells me to go to a mechanic down the hill. So I go to the mechanic and you know, I asked him to take me home. He takes me home and he locks himself in my bathroom for a half hour. He's smoking crack in my bathroom. So I'm banging on the door. What are you doing? So the guy pulls me into the bathroom and shoves a glass pipe in my mouth. And that was it, man.

That was it. I was now a specialist. Okay. And the only reason I did anything other than smoking cocaine was to keep my, heart in my chest. So I do heroin or pills or whatever, just to, you know, keep straight. But, you know, I was up six to eight days at a time. I eat a Big Mac once a week.

Richard Taite (06:44.095)
just to keep myself alive. was 147 pounds dripping wet. I'm a buck 85 now. Okay. All my teeth were broken. Cause you know that cocaine clamped on her, right? mean, Hey, Lily's pretty good, Right. Got all brand new teeth. You know, you get sober and your life gets better and you know,

the self-care comes into being, right? It's like, and then I went to college.

Right. I went to Santa Monica college, but you know, I was doing drugs. So it took me three and a half years to go through Santa Monica college. And then, you know, that's easier to get into UCLA that way. And so then I got into UCLA and I spent another three and a half years at UCLA. So I spent seven years to get a four year degree. So all my, what?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (07:44.428)
get sober? How did you get sober?

Richard Taite (07:48.459)
Ahem.

Number one, I was tired, but I went to a therapist. Her name was Margie Fetting. She's passed away, but I saw her for 15 months. But at 11 months, she asked me, she said, Richie, do you think you're getting anything out of this? And I said, no, not yet.

And she says, well, why do you show up every week on time without fail? And I said, because I'm slow, but I know I'll get it. Don't worry. I'll just keep coming. Because as you know, therapy is a language, right? It is. It's a language of the heart, really. And I was so ignorant to everything.

I didn't understand what they were talking about. But at 15 months, the light went off and I got it. And I gave her a hug and a kiss. I loved her. And I said, listen, I need a man right now to take me the rest of the way. Okay. But I needed the nurturing at the beginning. I needed the love. mean, my mother was not loving. This was not a nurturing person. This was a narcissist. Okay. I mean,

just nuts, my parents. And then, you know, I failed out of law school, right? Because I couldn't get a glass pipe out of my mouth. And then I practiced law for the next 13 years without a law license.

Richard Taite (09:33.845)
did it. I didn't have a choice. had a huge cocaine problem and that's all I could figure out. Yeah.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (09:34.126)
How'd you do that?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (09:42.552)
Wow. I mean, so you, I mean, you're a survivor.

Richard Taite (09:46.497)
I had no tools, man, none. I didn't survive, there's no reason why I should be where I'm at. I couldn't read at 18. I mean, I could read, but I couldn't understand anything. So I'd read a sentence four or five times and then go to the next one, because my mind would just wander. I didn't know that I had ADHD. That wasn't a thing when I was a kid.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (10:17.358)
So I guess I'm curious to know that your thoughts on some of the root causes of the crisis that exists in our country right now. I mean, you're describing the painful childhood that you went through, trauma existed in your life. Through all your years of experience, do you see that drugs end up playing a role, trying to serve a person's way of kind of numbing out the pain of their lives? Okay.

Richard Taite (10:41.867)
That's all it is. That's all it is. Sure, because if your head's chewing on you all day long telling you what a piece of shit you are, okay? And you take a drug. Look, opiates are painkillers, right? They work better on emotional pain than they do on physical pain. They do, okay? And we're a depressive society.

Okay, there's income and disparity. There's all these, you know, Karen's running around canceling every, but there's all this stuff, right?

I'm sorry, Can you just remind me where I was? I just forgot. I lose track sometimes.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (11:25.4)
Yeah, that's okay. Now we're just kind of trying to understand maybe the root causes of the crisis that exists in our country right now. You did a great job of talking about the trauma and pain in your life and drugs end up serving this purpose of like numbing that pain, maybe attempting to fill this void. And my question, my question to you is in all your years in addiction treatment, are you seeing a similar kind of core mechanisms underlying

Richard Taite (11:43.019)
That's right.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (11:53.442)
challenges that lead people to get dependent on drugs.

Richard Taite (11:57.493)
Yeah, it's always the same. They have to quiet the mind. They have to, okay? They're beating themselves up all the time and they're not enough and they feel fraudulent and they on and on and on and on and you self-medicate. The problem with that is at first it starts off all fun. Then you graduate to fun with problems and then you graduate to all problems, okay?

That's what's going on right now.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (12:29.742)
So I think there's gonna be certainly a question from my audience given the clientele that you have worked with in your life. And we'll get to that because I have to hear the story about how you built such an empire. But the culture in which you live and work, you see some of the people who have, you know, unlimited resources, fame, from the outside, they're kind of living the ideal life, the American dream.

Richard Taite (12:41.056)
Mm-hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (12:58.082)
but they end up hitting rock bottom with drugs and alcohol. How do you make sense of that?

Richard Taite (13:03.205)
it's easy. Okay. You have star fucking doctors. Okay, that will give you anything. Think about it this way. Let's be real about it. Okay, when you're a doctor, okay, you're going through school and you're grinding and you're missing the parties and you're missing everything, right? So here you are, you're a doctor, you've done great for yourself. You have no social skills at all. Okay. And now all of a sudden,

you meet this celebrity, right? And you're just awestruck by it. And you just keep handing them the pills so you can talk to your other friends at cocktail parties and say, yeah, I've been with Matthew Perry. I'm hanging out with this one. mean, the whole name dropping thing, which is just repugnant. Okay? So that's why you're having problems.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (13:56.3)
Yeah. Well, what leads them in the first place to start experimenting with drugs, given, you know, the type of lives they have, there such, you feel like there's, there's something about the Hollywood culture. Is there an emptiness there that comes with fame that maybe people on the outside just aren't privy to?

Richard Taite (14:13.035)
You know what's funny, man? I live in LA and in LA, everybody's somebody. Seriously, everybody's got, there are 10,000 people in the city of Los Angeles who are ultra high net worth individuals. Everybody is somebody here and if they're not, they think they are. Okay, so the celebrity thing is,

The celebrity thing isn't even a thing anymore. Okay. On my podcast, we're out of time. have underground rappers. Okay. They get way more engagement that nobody knows way more engagement, way bigger celebrity, way bigger following than the biggest celebrities that I'm used to growing up with when, you know, celebrities actually were famous for having talent. Okay.

So I hope I answered the question.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (15:12.704)
Okay, yeah, but I'm still interested in, you know, what drives somebody into drugs and alcohol, who's living that type of lifestyle, there has to be something like the money's not enough. The fame is not enough. Your career is not enough.

Richard Taite (15:23.136)
because

Richard Taite (15:29.409)
because you get used to where you are, right? So, right? mean, the first house I bought, I was in a condo and it was $1,200 a month. That's what I was paying. And then I wanted to move to Malibu. So I bought this house and it was now my monthly payment was $12,135 a month. I remember it. And my credit was so bad, they were charging me like 14 % interest.

Right? I mean, I was just getting sober. Right. And, man, I'm so sorry. yeah. And that was more money than I could ever. I was like, this is so much. Guess what? After six months, it was the new normal. Okay. These people have lines that they've built and it's the new normal for them.

So their problems are just as real as this guy's problems, who isn't famous because this is where he's, this is his baseline where he's used to, and this is their baseline. So, and you know how, how narcissistic everybody is today, right? So they're not thinking about, you know, this homeless guy's got to eat today. They're thinking about, you know, their big lives.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (16:57.218)
Yeah, it almost feels and from my experience working with, you know, a few people who either were famous or high net worth individuals, you know, money becomes like a drug too. So does fame and it's never good enough. Right. And once you, once you achieve it, it's exactly what you said. It's you almost become desensitized to it. It becomes the new normal and an emptiness does creep in because everything you're searching for, which is kind of like that next dopamine hit.

Richard Taite (17:11.51)
No.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (17:25.644)
is never enough. It's never lasting. It's always temporary. And it's very challenging, I think, for somebody then to find, all right, what is your actual purpose and meaning in this, especially in a culture like that?

Richard Taite (17:38.879)
Yeah, I think that's true for the most part, right? If you've got alcoholism or drug addiction, now they call it substance use disorder. Yeah, then nothing is ever enough. Too much is not enough. Okay. But for the normal person, it's not like that. Right. It's just isn't. So yeah. So that's where I'm at. That's where I'm at.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (18:01.718)
Okay, well, let's get to, you know, how you built this empire. How do you go from, you know, almost destroying your life, ending your life with drug addiction, and then being able to build something like this?

Richard Taite (18:15.681)
So I went to a place, men's sober living, and I met a bunch of friends there that I'm still friends with today. And it really meant something to me to be there. I was afraid I've never been institutionalized before, and even though this was a voluntary place, you know, I'm sleeping this far.

from the cottage cheese ceiling on a bunk bed with 10 other guys in a room farting and snoring and sneezing and every time the guy on the bottom bunk would move, right, the whole bed would shake, you know, and the thought that kept coming into my head was this is what my life came to. This is what you did to yourself. Right? So when I got out of there,

And I didn't get sober the first time there, a few times. But when I got sober, my other business was ending and I had nothing to do. And I had enough runway to coast for about three, four years.

But I loved that experience at the Men's Sober Living. So I had nothing to do, so I opened up a Men's Sober Living. And it was great, but I was practicing illegally. What I was doing was I was providing therapy. I didn't know that was treatment. And I was unlicensed. I had no idea you couldn't give people more than you promised. That was just insane to me. So I got my ticket.

And now I had a six bed center and we started off that way. And then we added another, house, you know, my neighbor's old. He was living there for 50 years, walks up to my place and says, will you buy my place? My wife and I keep falling. And then we drive to the city, to the hospital. It's too much for us. So I bought his place and I just left it there until I could grow into it. And then I grew into it.

Richard Taite (20:28.533)
then I got another house, right? And it's just, was all organic growth. It was just, I didn't know about loans. I figured no one's gonna loan me a dollar, right? Because even though you're doing well in your life, you don't get off a quarter century, right? So you're telling yourself, I'm a loser.

I mean, you walk in to a grocery store. had, I'd written something like 850 bad checks. So I'm in check systems. So cut to like six, seven years later, I've got a fleet of cars and I own a bunch of homes and I'm helping a bunch of people, right? Doing all these things, the homes and the cars are full of people, right? And I, and I cannot write a check for a loaf of bread.

I can't. It just, so that kind of experience makes you feel like you're a piece of shit in the world, right? I can't write a check. Like you're not going to take a check from me. That's the kind of thing.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (21:44.6)
So yeah, Richard, you were talking about the way that your father treated you and how you grew up and, you know, what the, what the drugs did as far as kind of numbing that pain, getting clean is one thing, staying clean is another, you know, what, what did you employ in your life to kind of deal with that pain that you experienced? And, know, what wisdom now are you sharing with people as far as like staying clean one day at a time?

Richard Taite (22:12.929)
So for me, look, you have to create something of equal or greater value in your new life than the life that you held as most valuable using drugs and alcohol. So you have to find the thing that you want. That's a better life than the life you were living. And for me, it was, I wanted to be an elegant man. Okay, still working on it.

Okay, but that was my thing. I wanted to be an elegant man and I had no idea how to get there.

but intuitively I knew that I had to take care of myself. So what does that mean? Self-care, okay? That means working out, eating right, getting a lot of sleep, meditating, you know, all that stuff, right?

going to the doctor, getting your physical once a year, getting your blood drawn twice a year, getting your eyes checked once a year, getting your teeth cleaned. I do it every month because I smoke cigars and drink coffee, right? So that self care for me turned into self respect, which turned into self love. It worked for me. Now.

I've probably met a couple handfuls of drug addicts over the years that were as bad as me. Not that it's a contest, okay? But facts are facts, okay? I'm sorry, where were we? This is like incredible. This is incredible. Where was I, man? Your editor is gonna have a real problem.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (23:56.078)
Yeah, we're just.

Well, yeah, I think we're in it. We're at a place here where we're trying to glean some wisdom from, know, what you've learned, you know, how to stay sober.

Richard Taite (24:10.879)
So when I opened Carrera, okay, there was an actual spa inside of the place. Three pools, two Jacuzzis, multiple saunas, steam rooms, everything, everything. And I went and I grabbed the manager of the Ojai Valley Inn Spa, which is a top 100 spa, and I had her create that spa.

with the same practitioners in our place. Now, people thought that that was a vanity play. And I guess it kind of is, but that's not why I did it. I did it so that self-care turns into self-esteem, which graduates to self-love. I have never once ever come across an alcoholic who truly loved themselves trying to kill themselves with drugs and alcohol. Never. And it doesn't exist.

Okay. Cause I've asked everybody and no one's that guy. Right. So I think that's important to roll out of the rack. Okay. Go get your wheatgrass and your wellness shot or your protein drink or your green drink. Okay. Work out, go through a day of treatment and at night. Okay. Have.

scrub or scrubbing around or massage or facial or whatever and there's it's just like a hotel there so many different there's a menu of all these things and you know some people don't want to do it. And at first my staff was like okay well if they don't want to do it they don't have to do it is like no. This is part of the program unless you've had trauma. In which case you're going to do something.

Okay, with a therapist there, so you're okay. Okay. But other than that, you're getting this done because I want you to experience a certain or joy, a little joy, just a modicum of joy. Right? Look, love's our baseline. Okay. That's it. You come in shame-based and feeling like a loser and you've donked it off all this time and you have no personal relationships.

Richard Taite (26:38.889)
Right? It's like loves the baseline. I call it a love call. Okay. So it's about empathy and respect and containment and, and, just attunement to one's needs before they know they have a need. That's the important part because it says you're important. If somebody says, Hey, I'm out of toilet paper and you don't get it right away. You're all about the money. You don't really give a shit about.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (27:10.271)
So this is kind of your model in which you originally built Cliffside Malibu, I assume, is to create it into an environment where somebody is experiencing luxury and they're being able to be taken care of. Now, as a model, do you find this to be more successful than what would be typical inpatient treatment for substance abuse?

Richard Taite (27:31.761)
my God. my God. It's not even close. It's, it's like being in a womb. It's like going through hell and then being put into a womb. It's completely different. Look, every therapy, every treatment center, every single one. Okay. The goal is the hope is that the therapist will make a therapeutic alliance with the client.

That's every goal. That is the goal of treatment centers. everybody, almost every single client facing person in my place will form that therapeutic alliance. Almost everyone, because if you're desensitized to the process of helping another human being, you're shown the door.

Okay, I don't want anybody here with a God complex. I want people here with the heart of a servant because I have one.

And that's the model. It ain't treating people bad so that you can feel good about yourself. It's operating in the space of, I always teach my people who is, when they come in, who do you love the most in the world? And they'll say my kid or my whatever, right? And I'll say, excellent. That's the way we treat everybody here.

everybody.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (29:02.318)
So let me ask you a question. The recovery rates for like 30-day programs or so forth are notoriously poor, meaning there's high relapse rates in substance abuse. Now, is that typical about what you're seeing with the clientele that you're working with, that it often takes multiple stays and for somebody to eventually get to the state of mind and the place in their life where they are clean?

Richard Taite (29:13.675)
That's right.

Richard Taite (29:27.979)
That is the best question you can ask. The best. Okay. Yes and no. Okay. If somebody is using their insurance, then they're going to get cut off by their insurance company before they're ready to leave. So yeah, you're going to have to come back a bunch of times for whatever it is. If you come in to get the heat off and you're in denial, you're going to come back four or five times.

If you had enough and you want to get this thing done, okay, you might need a month, 45 days, two months, whatever it is. Okay. But if you get pulled out of there too early, it doesn't matter if it's a second too early, right? Cause you're getting loaded. So what I like to tell everybody is I want you to stay longer than you need to. Let me tell you why. Okay. And they think it's a money play.

But I don't have any problems. We're always full with a wait list. Okay.

Richard Taite (30:35.755)
Just remind me what I just said and

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (30:37.294)
staying a little bit longer, recommending that people stay longer.

Richard Taite (30:40.927)
Yes. And I'll tell you why that is staying in treatment with us for 30 days is like getting three years of therapy. Now, after you're a doctor, after three years of therapy, are you the same guy?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (30:58.86)
I don't know. mean, absolutely not. don't think anyone can be the same after three years.

Richard Taite (31:02.879)
That's exactly right. So think of it this way. You're either walking out the minute you're okay. So that way you're kissing God's ass all day long to help you stay sober. There's no thriving in that. All your energy is spent just trying to stay sober. You're not, you're not growing. So what I say is if you want to glide through life, if you don't want to struggle,

It isn't about being sober. It isn't. It's about having a life, designing a life that you can be proud of. That's why sobriety isn't its own gift. This is what some idiot told the next moron and it was parroted by the next guy. All well-meaning people, but they couldn't be more wrong. You cannot stay sober if you're miserable. You can't.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (32:01.358)
So, let me ask you a question just about the recovery field in general, the business in general. There's different sects in that treatment, in the treatment community with different beliefs. One of them obviously is AA, and a belief that you do have to surrender to a higher power because of the power of these substances. How much of a spiritual component exists within your treatment?

Richard Taite (32:22.783)
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

Richard Taite (32:31.487)
Well, that's up to everybody individually, right? Everybody has to have their own experience. But, you know, look, I love AA. I absolutely love it. Without AA, I wouldn't have a life. Now, I wouldn't have kids. I wouldn't have a business. I wouldn't do any of that.

What was the question? I'm struggling this morning. I've got a concussion. Go on. What was the last thing you said?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (33:05.932)
Yeah, we're talking about the role of spirituality in recovery and how much of that is integrated into your treatment.

Richard Taite (33:13.515)
So I love AA, like I said, but AA is a support group. It's not treatment. Okay. And for me, okay, if I didn't have God in my life, I'm lost. Okay. Because we've spoken for a little bit now and you can tell that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I feel the pull.

Right? And then I go towards the pole and then I check in. I'm like, am I doing this okay? Are we good here? Okay. And then I get a feeling. Okay. And it's weird because I'm lucky because I check in all the time. But if I get the warm blanket, I know I'm good. I get a warm blanket.

And then it, then I know I'm in the right way. I'm going the right direction. For me, it would be impossible, but some people are atheists. Some people don't believe in God or they're agnostic. Okay. Those people can get sober too. Of course they can. And we just don't call it God. It could be anything that they want. Right? It could be.

their highest self. That always works. Because if you don't believe in God, you believe in your highest self, right? Always works. Gotta have something, Because if you could have done it on your own, you would have done it on your own. And it's not, it's not weakness. It's strength. It's strength to pull yourself out of a deep hole.

barely survive it and then be expected to thrive.

Richard Taite (35:17.803)
And that's what we do because getting so, because if it was just about getting sober, I would duct tape my clients to a coffee table until they were no longer physically dependent. But that doesn't work.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (35:27.406)
Hmm.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (35:35.502)
So you've seen a lot over the years. I'm curious to know what are your observations right now about what has changed with the drug problem in the United States over the course of 20, 30 years? How is it different now than what it's been in the past?

Richard Taite (35:53.067)
Well, it's different from when I sold Cliffside in 2018. So in the five years that I was gone and the two years since I've been back, it's gotten exponentially worse. And that's, not using that word without knowing what it means. Okay. It's what? 10 times worse. And here's the reason why. When I was a kid, you could, you had to write a passage.

You could experiment with drugs. You could. And we all did. Most of us did. Not the doctors. Okay? Not the future doctors. Okay? But everybody else did.

Today, you can't do that because like you said, 70 % of the drugs that you buy on the street now are laced with fentanyl. Okay? So you can't do that. But there's all these designer drugs now. You've got pink cocaine, they call it 2C. You've got ketamine, you've got...

and all the pills and powders on the street, everything, everything laced with fentanyl. And now you've got fentanyl mixed with xylazine. Xylazine, you know what they use xylazine for? You're gonna love this. To put down horses and other large livestock.

This is, this was their idea. The kids today are the stupidest, sorry. The kids today are the stupidest things I've ever seen in my life. Like I don't understand it. These drugs are so dangerous and you're not getting what you bargained for, right? So you can go buy some cocaine and you're dead in five, less than five minutes.

Richard Taite (37:51.221)
That's the difference. The difference is, it's why I came back. That's why I came back. I had a kid who was with me. treated his whole family, but this kid was my favorite and I loved him.

Richard Taite (38:09.035)
He was in, he was about ready to graduate MBA school from Pepperdine. He was 26. He had the most beautiful girlfriend that he just got engaged to who loved him more than anything. His family was magnificent. He had seven years sober. I did great.

And then he got into a car accident.

And they used to call me for everything, the family, but they didn't call me for this. This is the one time they had to call me because the doctor went ahead and put them on painkillers for two months. Any doctor that puts you on painkillers for more than five to seven days should go straight to prison. Okay? And then the kid's looking. Now,

He tried doctor shopping first, but now all these systems are connected. So I could have gotten away with it for three years, but he lasted three minutes. So now he's on the street looking because he's sick.

Two minutes after buying it, was slumped over the car, over the steering wheel in his car on the side of the road. Dead.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (39:27.438)
tragedy.

Richard Taite (39:28.609)
parents will never get over it. Never. They're never the same. The kids will be destroyed. The parents will be destroyed. And so I came back. And I'm glad I did because, you know, I've helped with certain things with getting a law passed. I'm sure I had something to do with that. And to hold

fentanyl dealers accountable here with Prop 36. Alexandra's law was rolled into Prop 36 and Alexandra was a girl who would be 21 today, but she died at 17 from a fentanyl overdose. And here's the bad part about it. The kids that are dying are not the drug users.

The kids that are dying are the straight A students or the good students that go to parties on the weekends that don't have the tolerance and they're dropping dead because they don't know how to use. A fentanyl user knows how to use fentanyl, right? But a kid who's going to a concert or a festival on the weekend, they're dead.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (40:44.428)
Yeah, this is the scary thing about it. And you were mentioning that at, there was a time where there was some accepted degree of experimentation in adolescence, but, but you were, you knew what you were taking. Like if you were going to smoke some weed, you knew what you were smoking, right? If you experimented with some cocaine, it was probably, you know, pure. Now you have kids who are experimenting for the first time, dropping dead. You know, we just saw that recently in Kansas City.

Richard Taite (40:54.529)
That's right.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:13.628)
You know, smoking a joint.

Richard Taite (41:14.593)
Wait, wait, are you talking about the joints that they were smoking in Kansas city at the, at the AFC championship game? Those poor kids face down in the snow. Wow. Do you know? Nobody believes me when I say that. Okay. And it's so funny because they're like, no, the weeds fine. No, the weeds fine. If you buy it in a dispensary, anything you buy on the street, I don't care what it is. You're going to die. It's not if it's when.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:21.004)
Yes, yeah.

Yes.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:42.957)
Yeah.

Richard Taite (41:43.505)
Okay. So if you get a pill anywhere from a pharmacy and I'm not talking about an online pharmacy, okay. That's a criminal enterprise. I'm talking about at the pharmacy because your doctor prescribed it. Okay. Then you're not going to die. if you're, if you're buying your medication, like, you know, like you're supposed to.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (42:09.774)
So I think you mentioned that you're a father, correct? So how do you talk to your kids now about drugs in 2025? I mean, it's just so much different than when we grew up.

Richard Taite (42:12.512)
Yes.

Richard Taite (42:23.317)
Right? So nobody ever talked to me about drugs. But what I've realized is this. If you get to kids early and often. You can really like plant that seed that grows and I'm not ever going to smoke. I'm not ever going to drink. I'm not ever going to do drugs. Now they can take that back, but.

If you can reinforce bad, you can reinforce good. And so one of the ideas I have that is going to the administration.

is I want from kindergarten through and including 12th grade every semester. At the beginning of semester, in my day, we had something called homeroom. And for the first day of school, very first thing, they see a video no longer than 15, 20 minutes because kids don't have that kind of attention. Okay?

but it's made for every single grade, right? So the first one would be like a, like a Caillou. Do you know Caillou? Okay. Right. That's correct. So you've got children. Okay. So Caillou would be like their kindergarten one, right? And then the next one would be like whatever that one was. And what this does is from the very beginning,

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (43:45.922)
Yeah, the cartoon, right?

Richard Taite (44:04.277)
You're, you're telling every semester. So it's twice a year and it's 13 years, right? Kindergarten first through 12 is 13 years. That means you had 26 times to plant a seed. Is it going to work for everybody? No, but I'll tell you what, I can prove that it's going to work. I can prove it's going to work. I'm an independent. Okay. So I got no, no horse in this fight.

When I was a kid, we said the Pledge of Allegiance every single morning. That made people jingoistic, super patriotic. There was no death to America. Okay, there was none of that. We loved our country. Now there's a huge population of young people in America that hate our country. I don't believe that would have been the case.

had you had that simple thing of just the Pledge of Allegiance. And I can prove it again, okay?

Richard Taite (45:18.187)
Qatar has sent billions of dollars to our elite education systems from the very beginning. They've been doing this for 20 years. Now that has really taken hold over time and people are now exposed to that type of thinking. And if we can use it for bad, we can use it for good. Okay?

I want these kids every single grade twice a year to be watching this video and have a discussion about it. Okay? So that way these kids know by the time they're in high school, half the kids are going to experiment, but the other half are going to be like, I'm not into this. And it's going to save a lot of lives over time. I love that.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (46:16.437)
Yeah, no, those are great ideas. I mean, and you're talking about a cultural consciousness, like what are, what are we exposed to? What are we internalizing? What are we digesting as a, as a community, as people? Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Taite (46:27.265)
social media, social media. It's killing us. It's killing us. It's killing us as a society. It is ripping apart our country from the inside. And the fact that it's allowed is just repugnant. There's so many good things about it, right? But then there are so many bad things about it, right? Do you notice how you can't even talk to a kid and they will look you in the eye anymore?

that there is no connection.

We can't do this.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (47:00.14)
Yeah, there's no doubt that we're becoming more isolated and disconnected as a society. And when you look at the root causes of the mental health crisis that I'm on the front lines with, as well as substance abuse, I mean, you see that continued disconnection. Isolation kills, loneliness kills. I would imagine that's probably one of the power of your treatment facilities and the work that you do is there's the power of relationship and connection.

Richard Taite (47:07.082)
Yeah.

Richard Taite (47:27.137)
people got so much sicker during COVID. They got so much sicker during COVID and forget the fact that nobody wants to work anymore, that everyone since COVID is completely apathetic. So it just builds on that social media culture of fuck you, I don't care, right?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (47:30.616)
So true.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (47:51.404)
Yeah and it and it certainly depends on the algorithm you get stuck into right like I try to avoid that.

Richard Taite (47:55.925)
Yeah, don't like anything, don't like anything, or you're gonna or you're getting nothing but that.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (47:59.278)
Exactly.

Richard Taite (48:03.169)
I was looking at watches. Do you know what? That was six months ago. I get nothing but watches. Nothing but watch stuff.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:11.786)
Yeah, it's getting dystopian. So dystopian.

Richard Taite (48:14.177)
Yeah, it's not great. It's not great.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:17.644)
Well, let me ask you some more questions. I mean, there were a couple other important topics because I'm following trends in both mental health and substance abuse. One of those

Richard Taite (48:24.607)
We treat them the same way, by the way. If you don't treat them the same way, it doesn't work.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:29.644)
Yeah, I mean, they're one in the same. It's a human being, right? And it's how people deal with their pain. People deal with their pain in some unproductive and self-destructive ways. Other people can turn their pain into something that's beautiful and amazing and transformational. One of the things that I'm following right now, and maybe you're following this as well, is guess what's kind of called a psychedelic revolution, where there is psychedelic...

drugs that are being used in the treatment of trauma and substance abuse and mental health problems, whether that's ketamine, MDMA, psilocybin. Now you see the ayahuasca retreats. I want to get your I want to get your your opinion on this. And is this ultimately something that is going to create problems? Or do you think that there's aspects of this that are

Richard Taite (49:08.661)
the torque code poison.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (49:23.341)
healing.

Richard Taite (49:24.481)
Okay, so great question again. Okay, when I was young, me and my friends did mushrooms and we went to dead shows or we went to Magic Mountain, right? And we drop acid and do the same thing. Okay, now when you have that experience, it feels like God is talking to you, but he's not, okay?

This is, remember when we talked about the people that don't do drugs, but then ended up when they're young and then they ended up getting into drugs. And now all of a sudden they don't know what the hell to do with themselves. Okay. Those people, when they do the psychedelics have the same experience I did as a kid. They just don't know what to do with it because they've never had it before. So.

To them, it's a spiritual experience. To me, I just lean into my high. Okay? So now, having said that, the caveat is, if you fucking believe it, it's gonna work. If you believe it, it's going to work. Whatever you need, man, whatever you need.

If you need me to tell you this is the greatest thing, if I see that you're on it and you want it, I'm like, God damn it, that's going to do it. Let's go do it. You're good. Okay. And we try the ketamine treatment. Okay. Some of our clients really like it, but here's the problem. It has to be done the right way. You can't have Matthew Perry's doctor deliver it to you. You have to have a doctor that is a real doctor that

doesn't treat you. He cares for you. Do you know, I've got a doctor, right? Think about this. You want to know what's different about us? I'll tell you what's different about us. Okay. This guy is a kite. He likes to kite surf, but he hadn't done it in years because been on drugs. Right? So how would you like to go with a functional doctor? Spend the day.

Richard Taite (51:48.513)
uh parasailing what he called with the surfboard and the the sail is that parasailing i don't know what the hell it is anyway okay they did that all day long they sat down they talked about his holistic health right everything how would you like to spend a day with a doctor who's focusing just on you and you're all around health

said no one ever. That doesn't exist. Okay. We do whatever is necessary. I don't care what it is. Okay. But you have to think out of the box. And as long as it's something that's positive, right? That, that is going to grow their life and expand and, and, and create a sense of joy in their living joy of living. Are you kidding me? I just got a joy of living.

And I'm 22 years sober, like in the last three, four years.

Joy of living? Come on, man. That's like fantasy talk. Okay?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (53:00.846)
I see how passionate you are. I got a question. It occurred to me that you sold Cliffside Malibu in 2018, but you just recently started your new center. What did you do in between that time?

Richard Taite (53:17.365)
had a nervous breakdown because if you're like one of the best in the world at something, especially giving people back their loved ones and you don't do it, you feel like you're dying. You feel like you're dying. mean, of course I lost my purpose. I'm, I'm the best in the world at taking care of an individual who's suffering from drugs and alcohol. Yeah. I lost all my purpose. Now.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (53:30.51)
Did you lose your purpose?

Richard Taite (53:44.159)
What I did do is I went and started, I dip my foot in the homeless thing. Okay. So I helped out with that a lot and I helped out, the mayor's office with a bunch of spots and advertising. So to help people of, black and brown people get, vaccinated because they weren't, getting vaccinated. So I did a bunch of stuff around the homeless and that stuff.

Uh, stuff that I still do today. In fact, uh, we've been treating the military for free for 17 years, and we've always had three, uh, active military or veterans in our place at all times. Uh, for, for 17 years, and we just got a contract to do it. And what we're going to do is we're going to find veterans right on the street and pull them right off the street and put them into treatment.

No one's ever done it. And we're gonna do it. And it was my son's idea at 10 years old. It was my boy's idea. From the mouth of a 10 year old.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (54:56.684)
Wow, that's impressive.

Richard Taite (54:59.797)
Yes he is.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (55:02.476)
So you also started a podcast recently. You know, what's your, what's your ultimate goal with that?

Richard Taite (55:05.988)
my god.

Richard Taite (55:09.289)
You know, I've never even seen a podcast. I've never listened to a podcast. So the fact that I have the number three mental health podcast in the country, according to Apple is shocking to me. I don't understand it. I don't get it. Okay. I don't like, I never ever thought I was going to do something like that, but the fentanyl crisis is so bad and I'm a father. You're a father.

Something you can get over? Is it something you could get over? Me neither. I can't even think about it. Okay. So I came back and I did this thing and I sucked at it. The first 33, I think didn't even run. Got 33 that I'm so bad at. I can't even run, but I got better at it. And I just.

kept saying, I'm going to do this until I get good at it. And, you know, these kids are DMing me all day long, right? They're asking questions and they're scared and they're, and, I return every single one of them because I can't take it. I just can't. It's too much for me.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (56:39.596)
So how many episodes have you released?

Richard Taite (56:44.961)
I've been doing it for nine months, so every single week.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (56:49.39)
Okay, so you're gonna continue to push through with this.

Richard Taite (56:53.535)
yeah, I'm gonna do it forever. And the reason I'm doing it for, mean, dude, come on, of course I'm gonna do it. I don't like not gonna do it. People are gravitating to it and people, you look, Pete, could say, everybody knows fentanyl, nobody knows shit. Okay, everybody's busy with their lives. Okay, they're busy with their jobs, they're busy with their families, they're busy picking their kids up from school. Everybody's got, everybody's here. Nobody knows shit.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (56:55.854)
Let's go.

Richard Taite (57:21.609)
Okay. But then when you sit there and you say, Hey, how many kids you got one? Well, then you better have the conversation. How many kids you got two? Okay. Well, you better have the conversation because that's all you got. That's all you got. mean, every good father wants the same thing. Just, just to make certain his children are okay in the world when he's gone. And if that's your job. Okay.

then have the goddamn conversation all the time. I was in the car with my daughter last year, she's 14, and she's in the car with her best girlfriend who I held as a newborn, okay? And I'm telling them I'm having the conversation in the car. I have it every month, okay? I am in love with my children. And she rolled her eyes at me and I pulled over.

And I just turned around in a calm voice and said to her, hey, you're everything to me. Don't roll your eyes at me. That's not something I can get over. Do you understand? And she said, yes, daddy. And that was it. Got to do it, These kids, remember, we were idiots.

Okay, all kids are idiots. It's their turn to be idiots. Their frontal cortex isn't developed yet. I was an idiot. I don't know anyone who wasn't an idiot. Maybe my buddy Adam, but other than that, everybody was an idiot.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (59:03.544)
So true. Listen, I've kept you for an hour. I really do appreciate your story and your insights. For people who want to learn more about your work, may need help, where should they go?

Richard Taite (59:15.691)
Well, they can go to CarreraTreatment.com. It's C-A-R-R-A-R-A, no E, all A's. And they can go check out, We're Out of Time with Richard Tate. That's my podcast. And we'd love you to listen in. So those are the ways that, and I think it's Richard Tate official on the other stuff. Yeah. Doctor, you're magnificent. Seriously.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (59:42.85)
Thank you, Thank you. Really appreciate it. I mean, I really do appreciate you for a radically genuine conversation.

Richard Taite (59:50.697)
Yeah, well, that's the only conversations I have.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (59:53.422)
Thank you,

Richard Taite (59:55.615)
Have a great day.