Radically Genuine Podcast with Dr. Roger McFillin

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (00:01.778)
Welcome to the radically genuine podcast. I am Dr. Roger McFillin. Do you remember the advertising campaign featuring the most interesting man in the world? I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis. Stay thirsty, my friends. Well, today I've got someone who might just claim that title outright, not just in medicine, potentially in the entire world. She doesn't always challenge medical orthodoxy, but when she does,

She prefers to do it with Ivy Lee credentials, ancient wisdom, and an intuitive knowing that I believe is spiritual. Dr. Mamta Zingvi defies every stereotype you thought you knew. A Trump supporter with degrees from UCLA and Harvard, board certified in radiation oncology and integrative medicine, and a scientist who speaks openly about miracles. The daughter of Indian immigrants who...

advocates for stronger immigration policy. What's unique is her ability to think for herself despite exposure to the PSYOPs that capture way too many. And these are the people I want to get to know. She graduated summa cum laude from UCLA, became the youngest graduate in her medical school class, a master's from Harvard School Public Health.

She's practiced in rural America while jetting over 40 countries. She's visited India more than 50 times where she received her yoga teacher training and she's provided free medical care from El Salvador to Ethiopia. During COVID, while most physicians fell in line, she took a public stance against vaccine mandates. She has a background in modeling and pageantry, was selected to serve

as an ambassador for the global clothing brand BB. And that experience she parlayed into national cancer awareness campaign. She's a lifelong pianist, she interned on Capitol Hills, an amateur cook, sports buff, and she hopes that she will live to see her UCLA Bruins win another national championship Sunday, which appears right now she'll be waiting for quite some time. So Dr. Singhvi doesn't just walk between

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:24.498)
world, she's dancing between them, challenging us to question everything we think we know about science, spirituality, cancer, what it truly means to heal. So ladies and gentlemen, I want you to just pour yourself something stronger than, you know, what is standard and typical. And let's just open our hearts and our minds for Dr. Mamta Singhvi. Welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast.

Mamta Singhvi (02:50.524)
my gosh, what a thrill to be here. Thank you for that beautiful, very generous and very entertaining introduction as well. It's a real honor to be able to connect.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (02:59.944)
Well, thank you very much. You've modeled, you've studied at Harvard and UCLA, you've interned on Capitol Hill, you've studied yoga in India, you've practiced medicine, you stood against vaccine mandates. It's almost as you've already lived multiple lives already. And most people build their lives around everything that fits kind of a single narrative, but you seem to deliberately defy certain categories. So in getting to know you a little bit, was there a moment when you realized you just couldn't or

wouldn't confine yourself to just one lane in life.

Mamta Singhvi (03:34.286)
you know what's interesting is that you make it sound so great to be this very multi-dimensional human being, whereas I feel like for the vast majority of my life, especially my younger days, it was really a struggle. I mean, you're already an immigrant, you already have this funny name, which by the way means mother's love, and I think that's something that the world needs more of.

But it wasn't cool back then. I grew up in rural America where there are not many people who looked like myself and I was different. And instead of that being a weakness, learned to eventually, never to sort of something that was very instilled in me very early on was to never make that be an excuse for anything, to never allow myself to be victimized by the, didn't get this because of, or.

someone looked at me funny and so this, it was just like, okay, go home and work harder, prove yourself even more. And that was definitely the immigrant mindset that my parents came over here. They came over here with a lot of respect for the new country they were embarking their entire sort of life to be in. They gave up everything, they sacrificed everything. my dad moved here approximately 50 years ago.

And so this was, it was new for all of us. And I think that for them also would have been easier if I just sort of stuck in the lane. And I did to a certain degree. I mean, I followed in his footsteps. I became a physician. I was always interested in medicine and healing. And I hope we get into the fact that those are two very different sort of realms. But I guess I just, I had this affinity to just sort of be all of me. And that's why I just love the name of your podcast too.

is over the years just starting to realize. And spirituality was one of those dimensions where my whole life it was like, here I am, I'm a spiritual scientist. I cannot extricate the fact that my beliefs, my faith is so strong that it really, it pours into every single aspect of my life, from my friendships, to the type of person I am, to the habits and the lifestyle choices that I've made.

Mamta Singhvi (05:43.478)
And so to sort of be silent about that through years and years of medical training, because it wasn't so accepted, it wasn't kosher, so to speak, to speak of. And to finally just one day be like, no, this is who I am. And that's just one example of I can wear all these different hats. I can be completely me. That's my choice. so.

It's a lot and I hope we talk a lot about this because it's a lot about agency and autonomy to be your best self, whatever that looks like. And I think that's the richness of the diversity of this country. It's not in the color of our skin or our faith, what type of religion or church we go to or our sexual orientation. It's the variety of experiences and values and priorities that we bring to the table. And so.

Thank you for speaking to that and opening with that because I'm finally at a place in my life where I'm just embracing, yeah, I am very different and I love it. I love every single part of it.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (06:43.576)
I think we have to acknowledge how difficult it is to get to that place in life because we are so conditioned by fear. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. How all these messages are really, we're bombarded by them in media, social media, in public schools, that there really is the sense of division that's created and we're conditioned to really kind of fall in line to the authority.

to follow rules, to not question things, to accept everything as it's a valid truth. That critical analysis, that critical thinking, I know you have probably experienced it throughout your medical training, but we're supposed to be that good student, that good person, we're supposed to follow the rules. And that's so far when things happen in our country, for example, or our current culture, speaking out really does provoke a whole lot of fear. So being that genuine,

truth to yourself, you what you feel in your gut, you feel in your heart that you really experience. Most people are kind of taught to deny that part of themselves.

Mamta Singhvi (07:49.58)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I have to give due credit to my parents because we come from a culture, especially the era that they grew up in, in India where it is very hierarchical. And there is not much sort of pushing against the envelope, speaking up against authority, which is, usually people who are older than you. And so there's a lot of reverence and respect that I

was it was incultated into me of like this is your teacher, this is you never speak up, you never question. And to be in this country and to sort of, you know, toggle that very different cultures. I'm very grateful that I was born and raised in one of the most free countries in the world where critical analysis, critical thinking was actually not only encouraged, it was actually emphasized.

And so it played right into who I am. I've always been someone who just doesn't take something that someone says, whether that's my parents or any authority figure. And it's always with respect. it's, I finally learned that I'm not trying to be difficult or different. I really just am different. And so that's a real distinction that I've come to embrace is I'm just being me. I would like to know why I need to do this or why I need to believe this. And then I need to sit with it. And for me, I need to pray over it. And I need to...

To me, prayer is sort of speaking with the higher force and then meditating on it is listening to what that higher force has to say to me. And so all of this has been like you rightfully said, I've trained myself over a span of a lifetime to be better and better at listening to others and respecting what they have to say. And in my career, you have to do that. To me, the patient is the priority, but also then, and perhaps more importantly, to do that for myself.

And so, yeah, I'm glad you said that because it is something that we need to encourage, especially children, to be able to listen to themselves and to know thyself, right? And I think that is one of the reasons I love the world of cancer so much and why I was so attracted is that nothing makes you sort of stop in your tracks and reanalyze your priorities and your values and who you are and why you're doing the things you do and what you believe in than a diagnosis that comes at you

Mamta Singhvi (10:05.388)
at a million miles per hour and makes you really question everything that you've ever known.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (10:11.742)
which is a good segue to something that I loved on your ex feed, your Twitter post, which I encourage everyone to follow her. You wrote, the most powerful feeling in the world is to come face to face with your darkest fear and come out the other side, which I think speaks a lot to people who are diagnosed with cancer, but I'm kind of interested in what has been your darkest fear.

and what have you kind of learned from it to get through it? And how does that kind of influence where you're going in your life?

Mamta Singhvi (10:48.504)
Well, I'm so glad you brought that up because it's, and hopefully we'll get into this in a little while, but cancer, and you may have heard this, I've been in the industry for over a decade and the majority of patients talk about cancer being the biggest blessing that they've ever experienced. And that is almost a controversy to say out loud, like how can that be? It needs to be devastating, there needs to be a war against it, there needs to be an F-

cancer campaign. And I would say that if the individual in front of me, the patient is being honest and vulnerable and has lived the experience fully and authentically, then every single cancer patient would say that they wouldn't change a thing. And that to me speaks to the fact that there is something miraculous waiting to be tapped into every single time you're hit with a challenge, you're hit with a catastrophe, you're hit with devastation.

And that's where, I mean, that's where there's beauty and tragedy, the battle scars, the hard earned wisdom, the wisdom born of pain, they're forged by fire. There's something, and you and I would both agree that we're living in a society in which we are coddling and everyone is a victim. And when there's a victim, there has to be a villain. And then people wonder why there's so much antagonism and violence and hatred. Well, what if you use every single opportunity that's meant to stall you and stop you as fuel?

And for me, that has come in a wide range of experiences from health issues to certain losses to, and especially during this last five years, it has been a revolutionary period for me, I transformative, like I could never have imagined. And part of that was speaking up and out against the mandates. And overnight, I mean, I wasn't shocked, but I was shocked that my entire social circle completely dissipated.

I I happen to be someone with a public health and a medical background. So much of my friends circle, of course, my professional circle happened to be public health advocates and physicians. And when I decided after months and months of prayer and deliberation, because I knew that this would have consequences, I couldn't have guessed what those consequences were going to be. But I live in California, you know, like the most progressive state and probably area in the entire world with the most ridiculous, I think,

Mamta Singhvi (13:14.03)
sort of rules and regulations around, I mean, I was facing the potential of a license, revoking my license for just speaking up against, and I wasn't even, honestly, wasn't even speaking up against vaccines. That was the irony of it. I have my personal opinions on the vaccine, which were very well thought out and very strong opinions on it and what I was going to do. But when I started speaking up, it was not against anything per se. It was in support of medical freedom.

medical privacy, informed consent, bodily autonomy. And when I finally came to the decision that I have to speak, I couldn't face myself in the mirror any longer if I was gonna stay silent on this and on the sidelines. It was like overnight. And I was already going through a few really serious challenges, but then that really pulled the rug under my feet where people I've known my entire life were smearing me, I was canceled, I was criticized.

publicly insulted. And some of these people, it's one thing to come from strangers across the world and it's another people literally down the street. And so when I face that, complete, I mean, it was a real hit for someone who's really prided themselves on being a good human being, on being someone who's respected, who's beloved by her, you know, her circle. And so again, it was just like, okay, in a moment I couldn't see it, but.

you're gonna eventually get through this and your voice is gonna be even stronger and even more authentic. And you're gonna learn to get back up and stand on your own two feet. And I think that those trials are what really, one, you get to know yourself and if you do believe, which I really hope that people do, and hopefully I'll speak to the fact that that's one of the things I think about when I meet a new patient. But when you believe, it's really theoretical. Your faith is theoretical.

until you're hit with a challenge that makes you start flexing that spiritual stamina and strength. And so for me, it's just been a number of things happened to all be within this five year span and in every sector of my life that really, I just became more of myself and I became more proud of who I am, more sure of who I am and more vocal with my ideas and thoughts and beliefs while respecting everyone else's opinion, opinions, because at end of the day, it's my opinion.

Mamta Singhvi (15:37.934)
I've experienced it, so I believe it, but you have to go out and experience for yourself and make it go from belief to I know to experience.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (15:48.564)
Yeah, I think you're sharing something that I believe strongly in is that our greatest growth comes in times of discomfort. And we really, our souls don't really expand. We don't really find our true nature in comfort. And in that safety that so many people I think are really searching for is to kind of feel safe and comfortable because there's this real genuine fear of being able to, you know, face uncertainty, face the unknown.

fear of our own death. That's why, you know, I think the blessing in being able to face our own mortality, memento mori, you know, is that you remember that our experience in this body is temporary. And we can really learn a lot about who we truly are when we're faced with those moments that challenge us, that we have to discover ourselves. And I think the connection to the divine

is like living that true sense of what our calling is and being in that flow that exists in life. I think we have tremendous capacity for resilience and courage when we're connected to God. Whatever you view as God, right? To me, you know, I feel like God is everything. God is nature. God is universe. God is connection to everything with love. And you feel it. And when you're not living that authentic self, there's a...

feeling a kind of shame and emptiness. There's low energy experiences of frequency of like depressed mood and real discomfort because I think that's designed for us to push something new into creation, right? It's like designed to get us unstuck. And so you're speaking about these stories, one for you personally, but also, you know, cancer or any kind of medical crisis can...

really force us into that transformational state. So I completely understand what you mean when people say it can be a blessing, but I want to stay in cancer because this is your area of expertise medically. And you don't provide generally the just the conventional advice. can, you said it right from the onset that there's something distinctly different from medicine and healing, but cancer rates have skyrocketed. Seemingly healthy people.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (18:09.35)
in their 30s and 40s are now developing this diseases that were once reserved for the elderly. And most oncologists focus solely on treatment protocols, they push genetics, pharmaceutical interventions. I want to get a sense from what you believe is the real driving force behind our cancer epidemic that the medical establishment is either missing or unwilling to address head on.

Mamta Singhvi (18:39.854)
So part of, during COVID allowed me to go back to school essentially and complete a fellowship in integrative medicine. And for me that became integrative oncology. And I wanna explain a little bit about what that entails because I think it's important to this discussion. So integrative medicine was a term coined by Dr. Andrew Weil out at the University of Arizona. And it sort of speaks to two quotes that I really love.

from Hippocrates is one of them, who's the father of medicine. And he said that the natural healing force within us is the greatest healing force in getting well. And so integrative medicine is about enabling that inner capacity. The body is very intelligent when it acts out for attention and it's because something is off balance. And so it's our job to sort of, and this is what,

I, this is why I feel really strongly about the word choice that's used when it comes to cancer. There's a sort of belligerence and I understand it. And this is, this is sort of like cancer being a blessing. We have to be able to learn to hold paradox where yes, it's going to cause a lot of anger and resentment and fear. And that's important to express that and to feel that in a healthy way. But when that's all that society is sort of pushing at you,

when that is the messaging that's coming at you when all of your energy and your attention is in this very negative frame of mind, you tend to forget that cancer is one of those sort of rare diseases that it's not necessarily, yes, there are certain cancers that we know are triggered by a external vector, like some sort of like H. pylori can lead to stomach cancer, for instance.

But cancer itself is your own body gone awry. Your cells have suddenly gone rogue. And so when you're directing and you're living in a space of anger and fear and resentment and hatred at all times, and your entire bandwidth of energy is in the sympathetic overdrive, then what do you think that's going to do? When your body is acting up, it's sort of like a little child.

Mamta Singhvi (21:00.31)
Are you going to yell at that child? Are you going to punish that child? Are you going to self-flagellate? What will you do? And it's like in those moments is when your body is actually begging for attention, for love, starved of every sort of positive emotion, relaxation, peace, joy. And instead we're doing the opposite, not just individually, but collectively as well.

So that is Hippocrates. then the modern, so going back to integrated medicine, the modern sort of father of medicine was a gentleman by the name of William Osler, Sir William Osler from England. And what he said was that it's more important to know the person who has the disease than the disease that the patient has. Said it more poignantly than that, but to that effect.

And so here we have it again, another theme that integrative medicine plays to is that we have to approach the individual in a very holistic sense. And so that you're not just speaking about what's physically going on, but that there are mental, emotional, psychological, spiritual components to what eventually became imbalanced. And so other sort of tenets of integrative medicine is that it's very collaborative. This is we're on a team.

I think medicine has become very prescriptive, very hierarchical, and you saw that very much so with COVID. Another aspect of integrative medicine that I love that it's open-minded, that it's inquiry-driven, and you saw that shut down completely during COVID, where sort of question-asking was tantamount to conspiracy theory. So these are the sorts of things that integrative medicine does really well, including the fact that the most natural, least invasive interventions are preferred.

Obviously, there's a place and time to use herbs versus some sort of radiation or some heavy hitter. But when you go in with that mentality, you're not just jumping the gun to just medicating everyone or pathologizing everything. So when you look at integrative oncology, what does that mean when you take integrative medicine and you shine that light in the world of cancer? I want to point out something really important that most people don't know.

Mamta Singhvi (23:13.634)
because it's not sort of well publicized. And that is when a cancer diagnosis hits, I often just hear like, bad genes, bad luck. And genetics, absolutely maximum in terms of the percentage that can be attributed to genetics is 10%. And that's overestimation. I would say it's closer to 5 % or potentially even less. And so, and this is why you'll see, know, identical twins. Why does one eventually develop some sort of horrific disease and the other doesn't? And that's...

because the presence of a gene is insufficient to affect physiology. That gene has to be expressed, it has to be on, and that's when epigenetics comes into play. And so you are very much affected by your lifestyle and environment. And so when you look at cancer and you consider the fact that, and I think this is an underestimation, but we'll go with sort of the NIH, WHO, CDC sort of numbers, that about 50 % of cancers are preventable.

And that's to say your lifestyle choices. And I think we need to get a little bit more comfortable with radical responsibility as well and not make that synonymous with blaming anyone. There's something very empowering about saying, hey, if 50 % of cancer is preventable, then that means that maybe I can do something about it. I don't have to just throw my hands up in the air and say, hey, tough luck.

And so I think that's something that we need to talk about and integrative oncology really does a tremendous job at pointing out the sorts of modifiable risk factors. And so I brought some statistics that I wanted to share with you. And I'm just focusing on a few statistics that I thought were interesting and that anyone can change in their lifestyle related to breast cancer. And so I'll just go down this list of five or six statistics. Women who breastfeed are at 30 % less of a risk for developing breast cancer.

There is a 40 % decrease in all-cause mortality if women who are diagnosed with breast cancer are in the higher echelons of physical activity post diagnosis. And we know that physical activity literally helps every single disease and every single marker out there. Females with a history of breast cancer who fast overnight, meaning from the time they complete the last morsel, a dinner or snack, to breakfast,

Mamta Singhvi (25:36.046)
women who overnight fast for less than 13 hours, that is associated with a 20 % increase in cancer death. The breast cancer risk in Japanese women increases, Japanese women who have immigrated to the United States increases with how long they have lived in the United States, meaning that their diet changes, their exposures change. It's amazing how within one generation, these women suddenly have the rates

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (25:56.606)
Mm.

Mamta Singhvi (26:04.792)
that are comparable to the Western world. Women who sleep less than six hours had a 100 % increased risk of developing breast cancer. Night lights. So, and I made a post on this that was actually very popular on Twitter, and this is likely related to melatonin release, but the women who are exposed to the most amount of artificial night light have about approximately 15 % increase in breast cancer risk.

And then my favorite given present company is the long-term use of SSRIs leads to higher breast cancer mortality. And so as you can see, these are pretty astounding numbers. We're not talking about 2%, 5%, every single statistic I gave you was double digits. And these are all things that other than the breastfeeding, which we don't always have control over, everything else is, you can change this.

So that's one thing I love about integrative oncology and I'll pause there.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (27:02.75)
it

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (27:06.664)
So, you there's a commonality between almost everything that you were speaking about when it turned to like increasing vulnerability and risk is that the more you get disconnected from the natural world, the more that the more you increase of being in disease, right? So for the breast cancer statistics, you're talking about exposure to unnatural light, unnatural food, the inability to be at peace in your life, to be able to sleep, exposure to toxins, which we are

mass poisoned in the West, in the United States. And I mean, there's no doubt about it. It's intentional, right? When a food company can put artificial dyes and chemicals in the food source of the United States, justify that, and then have to be able to adapt and adjust their business in Canada or Europe to take those out because they're banned, right? They're intentionally knowing, they're intentionally poisoning the food.

And we know that the risks to all types of disease related to how unnatural our entire food source is. But now you combine that with pharmaceuticals. And I remember I was talking to Dr. Diane Hennessey-Powell, who's a researcher, and we were talking about the dramatic rise in autism and chronic disease in the United States. And she said children are born into an unnatural world. And that can include vaccines.

And so yes, the more we get disconnected from nature, the sicker we become. And I'm also very fascinated in this evolving field called psych neuroimmunology, which is really it's the connection of the mind and the body and our environment and what we create in consciousness matters, right? So the more fear we live in or the more fear we're exposed, the sicker we also become. There's all these chemicals that are released that put us in this fight and flight.

state of being and chronic stress is an absolute killer, but it also influences us to turn to other things in order to find some form of like escape or peace, usually drugs, alcohol, could be food, right? So we're going in this constant hamster wheel of feeling bad and then doing doubling down on things that might give us some temporary escape, but makes us feel horrible.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (29:32.9)
the long run. So I want to connect to some things about consciousness, you know, our experience of who we are and our own relationship to that. So you wrote that true freedom is only possible through faith, okay? How do you define faith in the context of health and wellness? And you were referring to it earlier.

Mamta Singhvi (30:00.494)
You touched on so many things that I would love to sort of off of. One of the things that I want to touch on is that this long-term use of SSRIs and how that impacts cancer mortality sort of segues into what I love about integrative practice in general. And that is that...

especially when it comes to cancer, you have this diagnosis, people who are sitting there, you're just sitting there, everything's fine, life seems to be going for the most part well, and then you're just sort of smacked across the face with the diagnosis. Immediately, you're thrown into the system that is fear mongering, and we saw that plenty with COVID. And it's not necessarily malicious. I mean, I'm around a lot of oncologists. I'm not, a radiation oncologist is not the one who gives the diagnosis.

But I'm around medical oncologists. I know what that feels like. And all of a sudden, it's like everything, your whole life is like under fire and you have to make all these decisions and you have to do it quickly. And it's just this like sympathetic overload when somehow you're also tasked with making the most important pivotal decisions of your life. And it's like, how does that reconcile? How do you sort of take a step back, especially when people are saying time is of the essence and you need to do this and you need to go there?

And then all of a sudden you're outsourcing, offloading all of your decision making, all of your therefore power to the person sitting in front of you, to the physician, to the healthcare system, to the pharmaceutical, to the radiation, to the chemotherapy. That's like, where do you find peace? Where do you find stability? Where do you find grounding in that process? And this is something where I think there's a lot of sort of overlap between what you do and what I do, which is the sort of

giving up your power, whether that's to a anti-anxiolytic or to an SSRI or to the doctor or to the AA, you know, your AA sponsor. It's like everything is built to make you sort of give up and give over. And that's sort of how I think the system runs, is that you have no more autonomy and agency and self-reliance and resilience because you're not actively building that. And so,

Mamta Singhvi (32:23.134)
My mentor, and he's actually one of the major reasons I decided to go into racial oncology, he used to say that the sort of most important thing we do as oncologists is psychotherapy. And I think, and back then I didn't, I mean, I was very early in my career. It was sort of tongue in cheek. was like, you know, that's what we're meant to do. We're just meant to be sort of these old wise friends because people are going through a lot.

But as I sort of have been practicing myself, it's really clear to me what he meant. And he meant a couple of things. So first, I would say that there's a quote that I love, and it's sort of guided me my entire career, and it's by Hippocrates. And he said, to cure sometimes, to heal often, but to comfort always. And I think that is sort of what you notice is that there's a through line in every patient experience. And it's not

the actual curing. It's not the physical body because if we were sort of these automaton robots that objective scientific research oriented medicine, we would be able to cure every single person with the sort of same regimen. But when you talk about the fact that there is sort of there's this art, is there's the heel, the central sort of healing is taking place when you're when you're when you're actually tapping into the spirit and the soul.

And so when you look at it from that perspective, yeah, of course, like being there for someone during their most vulnerable is the biggest honor and responsibility there possibly could be. And if you are not, if I am not as the healthcare provider willing to go to the sort of deep existential questions that can lead to crisis, who am I? Is there any meaning in suffering? Is there a purpose to why I'm here? Is there a God? What is the point of all of this?

If I'm not willing to sit there in the darkness of those questions and to be able to handle whatever comes up, how in the world am I meant to steward someone going through those experiences themselves? And I think, unfortunately, you said this a little earlier, but unfortunately, I would say that the vast majority of physicians are not willing to even think about mortality. And it's like, wait, wait, how does that track? And this is why...

Mamta Singhvi (34:43.278)
I think it's like 10 % of our healthcare GDP is thrown into end of life, heroic measures, final like year or less of a patient's life. It's like because we're not okay with the end. And so another thing, and I don't even know if I'm totally off topic, but another thing that my, the same mentor used to tell us, and he taught us, and it was again, it was somewhat of a joke, but it was true. He used to say, I could walk into any patient room.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (34:56.798)
Yeah.

Mamta Singhvi (35:12.428)
I don't need their chart. don't need to know anything, not their demographic, not their diagnosis, not the stage, not the anything. And I can tell you how they're going to do. And of course, as like young residents, all of us were super curious. And what he said was that what was most important in terms of what he looked at was when he walks in the room, how many people are sitting there with the patient for that first consultation? You're literally at potentially the lowest you've ever been.

You're extremely vulnerable and scared and who shows up with you? And I can tell you, and now we know there's plenty of research on social network and how important that is and isolation kills. But I can tell you my heart sort of just, my heart just sinks when I walk in for that first patient appointment and the person is alone. And that is becoming more and more of an epidemic. So that was something that he taught us.

I've sort of taken that and said, what have I learned over the past decade plus of treating cancer patients around the world? What is it that is most impactful for not just longevity, but for me, what's most important is quality of life. And I somehow always get this in, even if I don't think it's gonna be necessarily met with excitement or enthusiasm, but is, do you believe in something bigger?

And if someone says yes, can assure, mean, first of all, I just get so excited. Like I know you're going through the furnace. You have the choice of whether you're going to allow it to forge you, to transform you, to refine you, to purify you. That's all on you. I cannot help you do that. I cannot tell you how to do that. I can just be there supporting you, championing you, cheerleading you, doing my best to sort of walk you through this process.

But it's like Henry, I think, Henri, because he's French, Henri Matisse, there are always flowers for those who wish to see them. And that to me is the importance of having a very strong spiritual practice. you see that consistency, regularity. It's just, and I'll pause here, but you had a post on Twitter that I responded to or on X, I talked to you about, and I, didn't talk to you, but I responded in telling,

Mamta Singhvi (37:26.922)
you and your listeners, just how much of an actual impact, objectively speaking, spirituality or religion has on the patient's of actual life expectancy. So I'll pause there because I'm sort of going all over the place because this topic excites me so much, but I'm sure there's many sort of threads we could pick up and keep moving on.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (37:50.278)
I'd like to read the story that you posted on your ex account. It's a true cancer story. It's Easter week, 1952 in the city of Baltimore, and a little girl is dying of advanced incurable cancer. A renowned oncologist notifies her parents that there is no further treatment remaining, that her disease is 100 % fatal. In fact, the priest had already dropped by

to administer final rights. Faithful and feisty as ever, her mother refuses to comply. She instead bundles her daughter up, drives her to a local cemetery. There she is laid on the tomb of mother Elizabeth Seton, while a group of nuns pray for a healing. Back in the hospital several days later, there's no trace of disease. Her cancer has

completely vanished, never to resurface again. Decades later, the Catholic Church interrogates all of her treating physicians. None are able to explain the mystical recovery. Her Jewish oncologist even testifies, the only reason this case has not been written up is because I have been too afraid to do so. Soon thereafter, the Pope declares the girl a miracle cure and her case,

is used to canonize the first ever American born saint. At 77 years of age, Anne O'Neill still loves to recite her story, share her faith, and prove the power of prayer. Do you believe, Dr. Singh, that the medical establishment actively suppresses evidence of spiritual healing because it threatens the pharmaceutical industrial complex?

Mamta Singhvi (39:48.76)
Perhaps the, I don't know the answer to that question. I can always speak to you from the perspective of the physician. And I would say, don't think it's that nefarious. I really just don't think many physicians, I noticed this during COVID. It was like, you worship science or you worship God. It's very rare to have sort of what we have, which is an open-mindedness and open-heartedness to be able to,

to be receptive to it all. And so I really just think that especially as you're going through the process, you become very much very logic driven, very much about what can be proven, what is objectively obvious, what can be reproduced and measured. And when that's not possible and the intervention is a little bit more abstract or nebulous like intercessory prayer or faith in general, think doctors get a little bit discombobulated quite honestly.

And so, and it's interesting because I would say most serious scientists usually scoff at these sort of anecdotal cases, this case report, this intervention that can't be proven or measured, and they're always in favor of what the research shows. And I have always been on the other side of that. Like I have been so fascinated by the case studies, the outliers, the miraculous, the inexplicable, because those for me show me what we are.

capable of as human beings. Show me what's possible.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (41:17.842)
I think you're uniquely positioned to answer this question. So you just mentioned, me the science or show me the data. Well, our gold standard science is comparison against a placebo. And so we do observe, you know, placebos being able to influence healing. So I don't understand that, you know, that debate on the side of the doctor says, show me the data because it's clear. It's why we're comparing against placebo because we know that the body

has its ability to heal on its own. So what is the belief system in Western allopathic medicine then around the power of the placebo effect?

Mamta Singhvi (41:56.93)
Beautifully said and I there are so many interesting cases around the placebo and I've seen it with my patients where everything's I literally had a patient who I was practicing in LA so there was a lot of fancy fancy people that rolled through I this woman was like Hollywood royalty. She's just been to the White House to screen one of her Movies and she she had been diagnosed with a cancer and was doing fine. Like she had been in remission for some time

I had just spoken to her and she was doing fine. She was happy. She was healthy. She was back to normal life. She had a pet skin like a week later and it showed a lymph node that was positive. I mean, she went down. She was dead within a month and it was just this like, my God, like the human body and the mind. And then we've talked about this, mind body connection. I think to answer your question, I really don't. think people in the medical,

profession, again, scoff at the placebo effect. They really think that there's nothing there. It's neutral. It's mind boggling. I agree with you. I don't understand it. To me, the placebo effect is the most remarkable thing. It shows us again what the body, the human body and the mind, when optimized, is capable of. But sort of going back to spirituality and the actual, you want objective data, I can give you that as well.

This is what I responded to your post on is that over 1200 studies have shown that a regular spiritual practice tax on seven to 13 years, depending on the study to a patient's life expectancy. And that's seven to 13 years with less disease. These people cope better, they heal faster, they have less anxiety and depression and mental health issues. They're more satisfied. They're living better.

Right. In terms of for the physician, if you can broach these topics, you're decreasing burnout because you, and I'd love to talk about this, but this whole godlike complex that physicians develop, I think is because there is a void of believing in something bigger, suicidality in doctors when suddenly you are the one who is responsible for another person's health and whether they're going to be alive or not. I mean, think about how much stress that sort of transfers on to this mere mortal. And so.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (44:05.684)
Hmm.

Mamta Singhvi (44:19.738)
it leads to better doctor-patient relationships all across the board. Spirituality, religion, whatever you want to call it is really critical. And I actually think that as an abdication of a physician's responsibility if this issue is not being broached at every single patient appointment. Because if you want to talk about magic bullets or the elixir of life, this is as close as we get to it, quite honestly. You think about like how much does

dialysis add to end-stage renal disease patient's life? Or how much does a statin add? Or how much does Herceptin add to a HER2NU patient? And I know I'm using some jargon there for your listeners, but it's like not much. And how much have we poured into developing these and the R &D and the studies and the so on, so forth, when something very simple that has zero side effects, mind you, can really revolutionize your entire life. And so it's...

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (45:14.12)
Well, match the

Mamta Singhvi (45:14.932)
I'll just end with this when it comes to spirituality and I think President Trump is leaning towards this, but if I was Surgeon General, and I know it's a very ceremonial position, but there is some impact that you can have in terms of what you're bringing to light in terms of the public conversation and dialogue, is I think we need to bring spirituality back into day-to-day life as a public health campaign, quite honestly. Because nothing, I've never seen anything that impacts collective and individual health the way that this does.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (45:45.458)
And imagine the arrogance to assume that we know it all that we can know it at this particular point, right? That you're very limited education and listen to Western medicine approach to training is very, very limited. it is very industry funded. It's from a certain perspective. And what we identify as gold standard science is very easily manipulated. I've done a number of podcast episodes on how easy it is.

to manipulate a study. And let's face it, there's fraud in a lot of studies too, because of the pharmaceutical interests. So we've become, we've thought about what is medicinal is synthetic chemicals created in a factory. Again, something that puts us in often an unnatural state. Now the body is so intelligently designed that we can even poison ourselves and have the ability to be able to overcome that.

to be able to heal, probably because of number of other mechanisms that would need to be in place. But it's just sometimes we have to step back from the arrogance of following protocols because we're conditioned that this is the best available evidence. While there's a lot of other science, really strong science that comes out from around the world.

that demonstrates these, what we just right now call miraculous healing, but I think is more about the ways we get the body aligned to our true nature, our body's alignment to God. And we move from disease, which is, know, really your body is not at ease, and to a place of true health. And we're naturally designed to heal. And when you speak to purpose, like I do believe our soul's incarnated for a mission.

for a purpose, there's a calling. And the further you get away from what that calling is, you're gonna get rocked with something. it could be your body could fail you. It could be a disease. It could be a loss. It's gonna be something that's gonna face, that's gonna lead you to have to kind of go through that dark night of the soul to be able to get you back onto your path. So the more disconnected we are from spirituality, the more we're gonna be disconnected from that everything is happening for us, not to us.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (48:07.058)
And I've recently wrote an article on this too, just around mental health, that the one thing that protects people from the depths of despair is the belief that everything that happens in your life is happening for you, no matter how painful that is, but that requires you to be, you know, connected to things that are greater than you. It requires faith. It requires a belief system. And unfortunately, I do think we find ourselves in a certain inflection point in our culture.

where, you know, people who feel lost, people who feel disconnected from God are finding God-like status in celebrity figures, in the medical authority, in the government authority. And that's when you become vulnerable to things like the transhumanist movement or anti-human movement. Because what you're being conditioned to believe is that you, your human nature in itself is flawed and it needs to be upgraded. And upgraded...

not by our natural evolution towards health, not what exists within us, but from technologies, whether those are synthetic chemicals or that's AI. And that's a very, very dangerous place that we are in our life right now. And I just feel like it's a proverbial kind of spiritual battle. There's some of this stuff is just extremely demonic. know when truth, you know when it's not truth because you feel it in your heart, you feel it in your soul.

It seems so obvious, and I think that's why so many of us resisted mRNA technology. This was not a vaccine. was never a vaccine, and all you had to do was a little bit of research to realize that it was a mass experimentation on human beings, pushed by global authorities, many who have been talking about decades about overpopulation and

have really it's just like another word for a eugenics movement right i mean there are people across the world that truly believe there's too many people on the planet that we really are you know just parasites there's this devaluing of of human beings our brothers and sisters we get divided on race we get divided on religion we get divided by our political affiliation and if you don't see that as purposeful like if you can't see past that then

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (50:29.746)
We really are, I think we're programmed by the matrix in a way that we're no longer really connected to that divine self. Instead, we're kind of living this automatic life. It's habitual. It's not thinking. And you can't say it because everybody repeats the same messages over. And that was like the hardest thing about going through COVID is all those messages are just repeated over and over and over again. And you're just facing the programming. There's no critical thinking or evaluation.

to it at all. why you'd see somebody walking on a path out in the woods at a park with their mask on. You know, it's just...

Mamta Singhvi (51:05.932)
In LA, you still see that, my bad.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (51:09.404)
I don't think I could ever go back to LA. My brother moved from LA. What's going on there is unfortunately, it's just sick. It just feels so demonic. There's an energy there that it just, feels like you're around people who are just brainwashed. It's almost like a zombie apocalypse type kind of movement.

And that's why I think it's so important you protect your energy. You have to be around more like-minded people. I know just went off on a tangent there, but it's...

Mamta Singhvi (51:44.674)
I'm glad you did because we talked about this before we got on is medical freedom. It's an all out assault on medical freedom. And that's sort of the last stand is if you are now controlling what I'm putting in my body, where do you go from there? Really? And it's also what you spoke to is this healing industry, right? It's really become an industry where we're all just broken and we all just need to be fixed.

It's like never good enough for always just like the next fad the next diet the next pill the next and it's like This is something that I think one of the gifts that eventual gifts that I was referring to with cancer Is that if you play your cards well during the process? you come to a place of just complete surrender and acceptance and not from a place of resignation or skepticism or cynicism or depression but a place of real empowerment of a

I'm okay, no matter what happens. And that you read that post of like, it's, it, that is why despair is often your surest portal into liberation, into freedom of just like finally being able to be your full self. And it's, it's, was really funny to me during COVID. And I see this often, unfortunately with patients who don't have that established faith, who have been cured, but are now scared of recurrence.

And so they're just always scared of the next thing. They're always worried, always just like living in this constant state of either in the past or in the future, right? And it's like, wait, during COVID, so many people I knew were just sort of entrapped in their house, right? Like it wouldn't go anywhere. All groceries were delivered. Everything was, you know, like you're super careful and you don't have the exposures to anyone. And it was like, wait, you are protecting yourself because you want to live longer.

but you've basically killed your spirit in the process. And it was just this like really fast, the same thing with these cancer patients where you're upset because your life maybe potentially, cut short by this illness, but you're not even optimizing what you've been gifted. And it's just this like, what are we doing? And this is another gift that comes with the cancer process is this ability to be present.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (53:58.036)
Mm.

Mamta Singhvi (54:07.426)
to be just grateful what you have. mean, news flash, we're all going to die, right? Like, and I think that to say that not from a place of like, again, cynicism, but from a place of like, when you get comfortable with that concept, you're no longer afraid of it. And again, it's like liberating, like, wow, okay, it's finite. It's priceless to have the days that I do. What do I do with them now? You know?

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (54:22.812)
It's free though.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (54:32.786)
Yeah, it's fascinating because I find myself in these conversations often as a psychologist who's doing therapy. We connect with this idea. So first of all, I see it as an illusion, right? This illusion that we've created that our life is supposed to turn out a certain way. Like we're going to die in our beds at 90, in a peaceful, like holding on to our loved ones, like the notebook, know, like the movie The Notebook or something. And we create this idea. And then once that illusion becomes shattered,

Mamta Singhvi (54:55.554)
Hahaha

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (55:02.036)
because we're having to face the loss of a loved one or our own mortality. That's when we decide to automatically start living. That's when you choose to live, right? And so the question is, why not live now? I mean, because we only exist in the eternal now. That's the only moment that we could ever live. And so many people are in their minds about this idea of who they should be, or they're in the past and they're replaying their worst moments, or sometimes people are living in the past just, you know,

staying in those comforts of those highlights. And they're not ever willing to kind of come up and face the adventure that life brings, which is to actually surrender, you know, into the flow of whatever brings, whatever comes our way to face it with dignity and courage and love. Instead, like everything's so controlled, you know, you have to protect everything. And that fear, I just feel like it has such...

consequences that we don't talk enough. We're so grounded in the physical in this country. So we look for the physical origins of everything, right? But we don't talk about the energetic origins. You know, the energy of fear, the energy of shame, of anger, you know, all these things that, you know, really are contributors to health and well-being.

And there's this whole post material science that is kept out of the mainstream that I would hope that people look into, because we're starting to be able to like measure these shifts and changes in like healing that comes from our own mind, energy, emotional states, prayer, love, connection. Like, do you not think that some point we'll have all have the ability of telepathy or spontaneous healing and spontaneous healing exists right now? You know, that was the

example of the story. And those things are documented all across the world and different cultures are more open to exploring that aspect, which is what I want to like connect with you a bit because of your heritage and you've been to India. You said that Western medicine is finally, you know, catching up with what like Ayurveda has always known. Could you share a little bit about that?

Mamta Singhvi (57:15.624)
I think that, so Ayurveda is the sort of whole medical system of ancient India. it's, think the only sort of competing in terms of longevity is Chinese medicine. But I do believe Ayurveda is an older system. But whether you look at Chinese medicine, whether you look at Ayurveda, ancient healing,

First of all, it wasn't prescriptive. It wasn't hierarchical. It was collaborative where you had sort of the wise one, the village elder who you could feel comfortable going to. You weren't afraid of judgment. I mean, now you have pediatricians who will throw you out of their practice if you're not vaccinated, right? Like, or hospitals that you saw during COVID. You couldn't be admitted or you couldn't be on sort of transplant lists if you weren't vaccinated, right? Like it's just become so warped from what it once was.

where it's sort of, I know we both keep going to this COVID era because I think it was just this eye opening of like, oh my goodness. And for me, was like every day that I speak to a patient who is deciding whether or not to choose radiation, I, by law, I'm required to go over every single possible adverse effect that, mean, 0.1 % chance, 0.01 % chance of some of these things.

And I know that if I share some of this, I can sort of pick up on a patient's personality. Some of the patients, if you share something, they'll sort of perseverate on it, sort of like, know, get really afraid. It might impact their decision. And yet I still tell them. And this is what was being done during COVID, like we can't tell people because it'll make them feel sort of skeptical about the vaccines. It's like, that's not your job. Your job is not to convince anyone.

Your job is to listen to people, is to understand people. And this is one of the posts that I made too about this transhumanism thing. It's like, or just tech, in medicine where I, British oncology happens to be the most tech-centric, tech-dependent, technologically advanced field in likely all of medicine. And I can tell you absolutely without a shadow of doubt that that is, we don't need more of that. Like it's like.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (59:13.062)
and

Mamta Singhvi (59:38.714)
It's incremental what that technology advancement can do for someone, what people actually need and why I was attracted to the field were sort of these people skills to actually learn about them, to understand for the first time, they're actually talking to someone about their values and their priorities and their hopes and their dreams and their fears. This is personalized medicine. And this is what ancient cultures used to do so well going back to that of like really getting to know someone because they understood.

that the physical manifestation is sort of the final manifestation. Ayurveda, I believe there's like nine stages to a disease and the physical manifestation is the final manifestation. So it's like, how long has this been developing and what are the things that have been impacting you? How are you? How, how does your body get so off course and so imbalanced that your natural healing force, which as we discussed, ancient cultures truly believed that that was the greatest healing force.

we are miraculous beings, sort of just operating without even being conscious of it on a regular basis, that that healing force has not been able to take care of what's going on. There must be something really wrong and we need to acknowledge that part of you. The manifestation, you know, that came way, way, way down the line and it will heal itself if we actually, and honestly, and again, this goes back to you're all gonna die anyway. That is sort of becomes moot at a certain point.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:00:50.536)
Mm.

Mamta Singhvi (01:01:04.406)
Right? Like the physical manifestation, it's like, are you healed as a whole person, physically, emotionally, spiritually, psychologically? Can we talk about that? And so I think this is just more respect. was, they really respected the cycles and the circle of life. Right? And so circadian rhythms and sort of when to eat and when not. It was just how much to sleep, when to wake up, these things. And we're so disconnected.

from that as you pointed out that of course our bodies are gonna completely go rogue on us, right? Like there's just so much mixed signals and confusion and you're throwing stuff into your body that you shouldn't. And then there's guilt and I really do feel that people who are like wildly successful in anything and everything in life, they don't have guilt and it's not because they're sociopathic or psychopathic, they just really trust themselves and they trust a higher force. mean, there's...

I love sports. I love like elite level sports because I think for me it's like this, it's on display, the optimization of the mind body connection, right? Like the people who can just like somehow transcend what you think the body is capable of. What are they doing? Can we tap into some of that? Right? And so when you look at Kobe Bryant's, your Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan's, I don't think it's an accident Novak Djokovic that they're all very religious or spiritual.

It's like, hmm. And this comes back to how do you achieve a state of freedom? Well, you have to transcend fear. And transcending fear doesn't mean you get rid of it. We cannot get rid of it. It's part of our limbic system, which is the oldest part of our brains. It's very critical to be able to have some sort fear within. But how do you sort of befriend it? How do you get comfortable with it? How do you know when to listen to it versus just sort of hug it and say, hey, I hear you, I see you, let's come along for the ride. I'm going this way.

Right? And it's like only when you can transcend that can you achieve freedom. And it all starts with having faith because you've got to believe that you're going to be okay no matter what. And the beautiful part again also about sports is that you're these people are just their whole lives. They have just been dealing with failure. And I think this is what we're doing with our younger generations, which is so unfortunate. We're coddling them.

Mamta Singhvi (01:03:20.738)
where everyone's getting a participation prize, you're not being able to come face to face with failure, with falling down, with losing, and then being able to get up and say, hey, my God, I'm okay, let's keep going. And there are certain lessons that are invaluable that you can only learn through that process. And a lot of that is resilience, where you have like a Bethany Hamilton, I think her name was, I don't know if you've heard about her, she's a professional surfer who...

a shark bit her arm off and she was like surfing the next week or something after she recovered. That's like, wait, where does that resilience and that grit and that ability to just get up and keep going and bet on yourself, even if you failed a million times, you're still going to gamble on yourself, right? And I think that's what's missing here. And I think it's what, why we need faith and that going back to your initial question, which was these ancient Ayurveda, it was.

The person who was your doctor was also the one who was your spiritual guide and teacher. Like it was all in one. And I want to share something about ancient India, which I think is so invaluable and so beautiful. And that is way, way back when, thousands of years ago, when people were still engaging with the barter system, there were only two classes of people, of professions, that didn't accept anything in exchange for their gifts. And that was the teachers.

And that was the doctors, right? And both of them knew that they were channels of God, that they were providing what they were providing. It was not theirs to give. They were simply these vehicles through which these teachings were being transmitted to the people around them. And I just think that we've lost that where we've now like healthcare has become a for-profit business. It's just everything is so warped that sometimes you just gotta laugh and say, I don't even know where to begin.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:05:11.688)
Well, we definitely have to get a part two of this podcast because you brought up so many interesting points just right there in that section. I just want to add into a couple of things you said, because you know when truth exists is you you feel it in your heart. I was getting like energy throughout my body, like this tingling throughout my body when you're talking about this. And it's this idea that we all have the ability to channel God.

Mamta Singhvi (01:05:23.32)
Please.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:05:37.39)
And when you talked about high athletic performance, I was thinking about, Kobe Bryant. recently watched a documentary on him. And in that documentary, he was talking about, you know, what he was creating in his mind since he was a young boy. You know, and he would replay it over and over and over again. He really saw himself like excelling at this high level. And when he faced challenges at different challenges in his life, the, resulting emotional experience that came with it.

is what was converted into either two things. Like there was a black mamba personality, which was like a shift in consciousness of somebody who had to kind of take over a game. It's almost like he was connecting to something that was greater than him. He used to talk about like feeling completely in the flow. There was no thinking, there's just being, and it's just kind of in that, and that is a greater connection to God.

but also all that energy, all those emotional struggles that we face in life, the challenges, the roadblocks, the loneliness, the struggle, the doubt, the uncertainty. That's a powerful energy that needs to be transformed. And those who become very successful in whatever they do, they're very good at being in tuned with themselves. They know their bodies well and they are listening to all those messages. So when you talk about like Ayurvedic practices and so forth,

Like you can't be able to be in a state of health unless there is a deep connection to the now. And that is what your body is providing you, what your emotions are providing you. These are all gifts. And so like, I think the most evil thing that happens is when systems, ideas or people try to disconnect you.

from your connection to the divine. So when COVID, when they keep open the liquor stores and they close the churches, right? Certainly that's message number one about what we're facing. Pay attention to it, right? When they wanna disconnect you from your emotional states, when they wanna numb you with drugs, when they wanna dope you up, revolutions don't occur when someone is numbed and sedated. They occur when they take that righteous anger and they use it.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:07:56.958)
to able to reach out and to connect, to inspire, to love, to transform through courage. And that's the power of this energy. And so when you see what the medical establishment is doing is some of these ideas to numb you and disconnect yourself from you, but also from the whole, each other. Listen, masks were a way for us to disconnect from each other. We connect through our facial expressions, right? The moment you start putting a mask on there, you're...

Mamta Singhvi (01:08:22.062)
you

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:08:25.234)
conditioning them to be dangerous. You need to stay away from them, right? If you can see beyond what the narrative was, you can pick up on every aspect of the psychological warfare and the spiritual warfare that was meant to keep us sick, divided, and dependent. And what I love about where we are right now in conversations like this is it has the opposite effect.

because what it does is it inspires us to change systems that harm people. We're awakened to it. We are able to observe what the matrix has done and we're able to step out and connect with our calling, our divine nature. And we do this in times of silence. We do this in times of introspection, in prayer, reflection.

pushing ourselves to limits, to get new experiences of consciousness, right? And that could be fasting, that could be intense exercise, that could be pushing ourselves into discomfort, in areas of discomfort, because that's where we connect with God in those moments. I really in my heart believe that. So, I see any message or any system or anything that disconnects us from everything that is natural in that way, to me it's evil.

That's the spiritual war that's going on. And I think we've incarnated into our bodies to be able to experience just this time. And that's what we're here for. I don't believe that it's a coincidence that, Mamta, you're on my podcast right now, we're having this conversation and that it's going to reach thousands. That's what it's meant to be. Like other people are meant to hear this and the right people are going to be drawn to it. And I think once we're awakened to that reality,

then we begin to see health and wellbeing from a completely different perspective, right? Then we cannot be fear conditioned. We can't be fear conditioning to our own sickness, right? We see everything that is happening for us as part of pushing towards that discomfort to find our most genuine authentic selves and to be able to raise the vibration and energy of love on this planet to be able...

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:10:48.242)
to facilitate in the change that I think is meant to happen. And that's how I see it. And the more I'm able to kind of connect with what's in my heart, then I can articulate those messages. But you did such a great job of speaking about it that I think there are so many practices that we can create another podcast on this. There's so many daily practices that allow you to connect with that.

that need to be more widely discussed and brought into mainstream medicine. I do, that's my final thought. I've kept you, you know, quite some time. So I just wanna like end with maybe one final question if you're willing. And that's around, you know, what you think the medical community needs to do to rebuild trust because it's clear that the trust is broken. It's clear that the medical authority has violated its power.

Mamta Singhvi (01:11:29.516)
Absolutely.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:11:44.848)
And ultimately that's harmful to a culture, to a society, because we have to be able to have this mutual trust in what we've committed our lives to, right? If you're a healer, if you're a true healer and your true calling is to go into medicine, to me that is such a high calling. It's such a meaningful profession that it's important as a culture.

for us to be able to have people in our lives that we can go to and we know that they're connected to us and they care about us and they care about the lives that we live. And we care so much that informed consent and medical freedom is respected. We care so much that they're provided all the information that is necessary for them to make informed decisions for their own health and wellbeing and that of their family. So we've completely lost that. So what do you think we need to do to rebuild this?

Mamta Singhvi (01:12:44.238)
I think I'll answer this with two different things that are coming to mind and heart. One is that I put out this video on YouTube. The second video I put out during COVID, I was actually very, very proud of. One, because I unearthed, I like resurfaced after months of just being so devastated by the responses. To be fair, there were a lot of people who were so kind and so appreciative.

But that second video, clearly I had something to say that I think I thought was very important. And so I'll start with saying that, and I don't, again, I don't think this is nefarious, but I really do believe that physicians, the medical community as a whole, believes that their only job is to extend life at all costs. And this is actually sort of a more benign answer to your question. I'll get into a little bit more serious of one, but the benign aspect of this is,

You said before, you're a nail, or sure, when you're hammer, everything is a nail. And so when you truly believe that all the patient in front of you wants is just tack on a few more days or years to my life, one pharmaceutical companies will be spending millions and billions to actually do that. And then the doctors were so confused during COVID of like, wait, we know, they didn't know, but we believe and we're the experts and we're infallible that XYZ will help you live longer.

And people are still not, you know, they're still going rogue on us. What's going on? And I think that aggravated physicians to the point of it was like a real like hit on the ego, quite honestly. And I think that's one thing that we need to take the ego out of this. But what I spoke to in that video was the fact that this is why personalized medicine is actually getting to know the person in front of you. Because we know that people prioritize different.

differently than the next person, differently than their own parents or their siblings, of course different to the general population. And I'll give you a few examples. So we often risk help for other things we value or think like pleasure, for instance. I mean, some of us, we know the daily donut or the daily cupcake is probably not a good thing, but it makes life worth living for some of us or adventure, right? Like how many times have I been in the ER and there's been a motorcycle casualty, right?

Mamta Singhvi (01:15:00.556)
And people know this, but they're still gonna go out and take that for them is what again makes life worth living. Or patriotism, right? There's active war, but you're gonna enlist because you care that deeply about representing your country, about putting your life on the line to be able to protect the people back at home. Or altruism, right? The people who donate, Oregon donated kidney because I don't know, mom needs it or dad needs it. These are all risk.

risky things that people are doing. mean, religion, you got your Jehovah's Witnesses who are not gonna be accepting a blood transfusion no matter what because that's what their faith dictates. So when you look at it from that perspective, we need to understand that risk aversion is a different calculation for every single person. And in America, freedom is really important, right? And so you're not gonna tell people to do this and six feet and don't go to church and da da, and not expect that they're there to be a major rebellion.

Right, and so I think that's first, is that we as a entity, as a healthcare field, need to understand that every single individual is unique and that's God's gift. And perhaps to have a humble and vulnerable approach to understand who that person is. And then the second thing I'll say is that, this goes back to sort of why I entered medicine, is my father is a physician and what a blessing to have him as an example. I mean, this is a man of deep faith, so medicine was actually a sacred noble calling for him.

And 50 years later, and he has been a physician for over 50 years, he still treats every single patient encounter with such reverence and respect. It's like I said, the opposite of the God complex, the expert, this egotistic era where the doctor is infallible, the expert's on a pedestal. It's the opposite for him because he understands intimately that, again, he's simply a channel, that he has been honored, he has been given this responsibility, this right to be able to do God's work.

It's being done through him. And so that there's this humility and this vulnerability and this lightness when you operate from that framework. And you take away this heavy burden because you're no longer scared to admit when you don't know, which we weren't doing a good job of during COVID. There was no sort of I'm not sure, I don't know, which I think people would have appreciated much more than lies. And when you're right, you don't get too full of yourself. Your head doesn't explode.

Mamta Singhvi (01:17:25.548)
But when you're wrong, you're not devastated the point of suicidality and burnout, right? Again, you're operating from a place and this is why, I what a beautiful place to end, I think, is that spirituality is not just important for the patient who wants to live a longer, more fulfilled, gratifying life. It's also important for the provider to really understand why they're here, what they're doing, and on whose behalf they're doing it.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:17:51.912)
Well said. And that is a great point to end on. I'm so grateful for your willingness to come on the conversation. There's so many real nuggets of wisdom throughout the course of this entire episode and so many opportunities to ask more specific questions about like very specific ways of like choosing to live your life in order to achieve some of these states of wellbeing that we kind of referred to today. So I hope you might be willing to come on for another episode.

Mamta Singhvi (01:18:15.502)
It'd be so much fun. Thank you. Again, thank you for being someone who's so curious and open-minded and non-judgmental where you can sort of just be your full self and truly be radically genuine. I mean, it's such an apt name and we need more, we need exactly more of that and people leading the way like yourself. So thank you.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:18:33.832)
Thank you. And what is your X handle so people can follow you?

Mamta Singhvi (01:18:38.068)
This is embarrassing. think it's Dr. Mantha Singhvi, but it could be Mantha Singhvi MD. I believe it's DR Dr. Mantha Singhvi.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:18:46.044)
And I will include that in the show notes. And is there any other work that you're doing that's public that people can be exposed to?

Mamta Singhvi (01:18:48.376)
Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Mamta Singhvi (01:18:54.058)
I was, again, I put out a few videos on YouTube during the COVID era, which I think are still applicable. I was immediately censored. And then on Instagram, I was censored as well. So I dropped both those platforms. Hopefully one day I can rejoin. But for now, I am happy being completely free on.

Roger K. McFillin, Psy.D, ABPP (01:19:12.052)
Okay. Well, Dr. Mamta Singhvi, I want to thank you for a radically genuine conversation.

Mamta Singhvi (01:19:19.458)
Thank you.