Radically Genuine Podcast with Dr. Roger McFillin

Sean (00:01.62)
Welcome to the Radically Genuine Podcast. I am Dr. Roger McFillin. Real excited about today's guest. I've become a fan of his after learning about his podcast, Design to Heal, and also have been reading his daily devotional, same title, Design to Heal. This gentleman recently left me a voice message. He was thanking me for some of the topics on our podcast.

We have brought on some traditionally trained allopathic medical doctors who've been waking up and exposing the harms of the pharmaceutical model and been shifting to more common sense, holistic and functional approaches to health and medicine. And although he was grateful for this movement, he noted that we had yet to interview a chiropractor, a profession that has embraced many of these ideals from its inception.

It was like, welcome to the party, everybody. It appears that many people in the Western world are starting to open up to some more alternative, traditional and holistic healing practices. There's more greater recognition that our healthcare system is a factor in declining mental and physical wellness of our population. Sean, in many ways, the cures have simply become the disease.

And with that being said, I want to welcome Dr. Ben Rall, who's born and raised in the great state of South Dakota, where he owned and operated one of the largest chiropractic and wellness clinics in the United States. For the past 18 years, he has worked with businesses, churches, corporations of all sizes, and created an unmatched corporate wellness program for today's business model. He was the official chiropractor for Team USA Wrestling, weightlifting,

and Judo at the 2012 London Olympics. In 2016, he authored the book, Cooperative Wellness, in which he lays out a powerful, simplified approach to help readers be part of the healthcare solution and achieve wellness for themselves and those around them. As I mentioned earlier, he recently co-authored his second book, Design to Heal, which is a 365-day daily devotional.

Sean (02:24.572)
incredible five star rated podcast, Design the Heal. You get exposed to a lot of experts, people that I really do respect in the field. They share their stories, their research, insights into helpful information in the world of health and wellness. A lot of the stuff that you know is just kind of kept from the mainstream, because it's not part of the sick care system. Yeah, they had some really great guests too, like

We got to talk to him and find out how we can get some of those people on our show. Yeah. He has great, some great people. He currently resides in Orlando, Florida. He's the owner of achieve wellness clinic where he currently practices and sees hundreds of patients every week in the central Florida area. And I'm just want to pick his brain about what he's seeing in clinical practice. He's committed to educating and empowering individuals on how to apply a vital stic model of healthcare to their lives and to live well. Dr.

Dr. Ben Rall (02:53.312)
Ha ha

Sean (03:18.868)
Ben Rall, welcome to the Radically Genuine podcast.

Dr. Ben Rall (03:21.498)
Hey guys, I am excited to be here. Thank you for having me. That was, that was a for you know, you sometimes forget when you're hearing your story. And then the only part that I have to correct is I've gotten older. Now it's over 20 years. And so then I'm like, Oh, man, so 18 sounds better. You know, the older you get, first for a while, you want to get more years, so you have some credibility, then you hit a certain number, you're like, Okay, let's just pause there.

Sean (03:45.532)
Yeah, you get to 20 and then after that, now you're just old. But I'd like to just... I'd rather just kind of describe it in terms of generating wisdom.

Dr. Ben Rall (03:48.471)
Yeah, I remember when I go ahead.

Dr. Ben Rall (03:54.978)
There you go. I remember when I was first in practice and I would go into the room and the patients would, you could just tell they were like, are you, you're the doctor, you know? And now I don't get that anymore. They're pretty sure that I'm old enough to be doing what I'm doing, so.

Sean (04:07.26)
Yeah, I actually think it's a benefit to have the gray in the beard or the gray in the hair. Like it's an actual benefit, I think. I have to learn about you, Ben. Um, you seem to have a really interesting story. Anyone who kind of steps outside what is sold to us generally does so because of life experiences have driven them to see things from a new perspective. Can you just let us know about your background? How did you get to this point in your career?

Dr. Ben Rall (04:13.069)
There you go. That's funny.

Dr. Ben Rall (04:19.629)
Mm.

Dr. Ben Rall (04:33.066)
Yeah, Doc, I'll do my I'll do my best to make it a shortened story. But usually in holistic health care. Historically, this was true for sure. Everybody that was a chiropractor back in the day, they hadn't experienced they were a, they had a miracle, they had something happen. And then they wanted to know more about this. And so I had something similar to that happen. We were talking earlier off air, I grew up I was from the Midwest from South Dakota, I was a boxer. And my whole goal and dream was to go to the Olympics. My Olympics would have been 1996 Atlanta games.

And so I'm this little white kid from South Dakota, but I could fight pretty good. And I kind of moved up through the ranks. And the way it works in boxing is there's the top four in the weight class will fight for the box-offs. The winner goes to the games. It's just pretty simple. So I'm training at the Olympic Training Center and I get sick, all right? Now I grew up traditional healthcare. I mean, Midwestern, we didn't go to the doctor all the time, but certainly, you know, do what the doctor says, just this kind of paternalistic medical model system. So I call my mom, I say, what do I do? She says,

go to the doctor. So I go to the doctor and you've heard this story on this show many times and this is certainly true. And it's interesting because I know this show often talks about the mental health area. But this is true across healthcare. Alright, so I had that same experience I go in, they took a camera, an upper GI and a lower, you know, GI and they remember when I woke up that the doctor was standing over me with his pictures kind of like on a printout. And all I could see was these just these gross look like tar spots like black

circles and bleeding red things. And he said, you have these precancerous lesions all throughout your digestive system. I said, What do I do? He said, you need to take these drugs. I said, for how long he said forever. I didn't know what to do. I took the drugs. I go I go back to the training center. What happens these, these drugs actually made me worse shut down my digestive system, I gained 70 pounds. So I went from 165 pounds to 245 pounds. And if you know much about

and any sport like that, it's a weight class and I was no longer qualified. So I got removed from the training program. I went back to my hometown, sick, fat and depressed, I often say. And I suffered like that for three and a half years, I'd go in every six months, get my scans redone. My lesions were either getting worse or staying the same. Nothing was getting better. Now, of course, I'm having additional side effects to the medications people kind of understand this and so but I didn't know what to do. I just, I just kept doing what they told me. And somebody told me to go to a chiropractor.

Dr. Ben Rall (06:54.622)
Now again, this is just my story. This isn't how it is for everybody. I kind of initially thought like, why would I go to a chiropractor? I mean, I understand maybe they would help with my back pain, but I'm having digestive issues, but I went anyway. And he was the first doctor that really took a minute to explain health and healing to me in a way I'd never had explained to me before. He did an exam, he checked my nerve system out, he checked my spine. And he said, you know, Ben, I don't think your body just forgot how to digest food when you're 19. And I don't think that the cause of your problem is a deficiency in drugs.

Now those things again might sound so simple to a listener, like, well, of course, but for me, 25 years ago, that was not, that was the first time I had heard that. I said, what do I do? And he said, well, we're gonna begin the process of getting pressure off of your nerve system, your body aligned. Now God is my witness. I got my first adjustment that week. By the end of that week, I was off of the medications I'd been on for three and a half years. And I lost 67 pounds in four months, and it changed my life. I went two months after that, got my scans redone, my lesions were completely healed.

It's amazing, but it's not a miracle. And like I talk about, right, the body's designed to heal. So what's fascinating about that is when I, when people were, when I was getting healthy, that's when people asked if I was okay, right? That's all people were like coming out of the woodwork. You look like you're getting sick there, buddy. You're losing a bunch of weight. I'm like, where have you been for three and a half years? Right, I was actually sick. And so that started my walk into chiropractic, personal experience, changed my life, and then kind of the rest is history, if you will.

Sean (08:22.352)
Yeah, I have a similar experience. One of my good friends growing up, uh, he's now a chiropractor, Dr. Joe commits, Sean knows him well. He had lifelong asthma and we played sports growing up. We were on the high school basketball team together and he was always going to get his inhaler because it was just really, really hard for him to function. And as he became a young adult, he ended up seeing a chiropractor. I think it was the Gonstead met chiropractic.

Dr. Ben Rall (08:27.486)
Yeah, awesome. Wow.

Dr. Ben Rall (08:51.022)
There you go. Yeah, I was certified in that as well. Well, this is a memory lane here for sure. Yeah, very specific technique. Absolutely.

Sean (08:58.084)
And I think the doctor at the time said, well, this one area of your spine was needed to be released its entire life. Right. And he does this adjustment and his asthma is cured. He has not had any relapse or into asthma again, which started his path then to being trained as a Gonstead chiropractor. He has a large practice in San Diego. And these stories, they're not unique.

You know, I've, I've witnessed them in my own clinical practice where people try what would be considered alternative approaches, not just chiropractic, but also like incorporating some, you know, Eastern medicine, um, acupuncture, a number of other things. And I want you to be able to explain to my audience a little bit better about what chiropractic actually

Dr. Ben Rall (09:42.71)
Yeah. Acupuncture. Yeah.

Sean (09:54.088)
does. There's a lot of misconceptions out there. You'll have the allopathic medical doctor who will want to dismiss it as quackery. And then you'll have other people within the healthcare system who will support it as an important intervention. But I just want to get educated ourselves on what exactly chiropractic work is designed to do.

Dr. Ben Rall (10:01.664)
Yeah.

Dr. Ben Rall (10:15.346)
Yeah, I mean, it's it well, it's a great story of your friend. Matter of fact, it was a Gonstead chiropractor was the one that adjusted me that you just that I got my results with. So that actually made me want to be that type of chiropractor as well. So I'll do my best. Now what's interesting, and probably a little bit like your work, Roger, which is, even though I'm going to do my best to explain chiropractic, I'll probably still upset some chiropractors, right? Because even in our own profession, often because we're kind of a rebel group, we go against the grain already.

to try to simplify an artistic, you know, profession like chiropractic, I won't please everybody, but I'll do my best, right? So chiropractic was founded in 1895, just interestingly enough, the story of chiropractic was a deaf janitor in Iowa got an adjustment and he got his hearing back. Now that is almost for some people like right away, that's where probably the quackery began, right? They go, well, okay, this is already too weird. How do you adjust somebody's neck and they get the hearing back?

But that's the story that name the man's name is Harvey Liller. The founder of Chiropractic is a guy by the name of Dee Palmer. I'm not going to go through the whole history. I just mean that's when it started 1895. Now it's grown a lot. It's the largest drugless profession, licensed profession in the world. We've been against the grain from the very beginning. Matter of fact, Roger, we sued the AMA in 1988, 1990, and we actually defeated the AMA.

against in an antitrust lawsuit because they were trying to destroy our profession. We have been jailed. I mean, I know chiropractors older, you know, chiropractors that practices were burned to the ground. They were, they had to have a secret knock so they could, you know, see their patients there. They were jailed. This is there's actually a life university in Atlanta, there's a tower there and inside is all the chiropractors that have been jailed for what they call practicing medicine without a license.

We always said we're not practicing medicine. We don't want to practice medicine. That's not what we do. We practice chiropractic. That wasn't a good enough answer for them. And so the history of my profession is very much against the grain group. I often, I remember one of my first professors, he said this and it always stuck with me. He said, if somebody lives to be 100, medicine will ask how they died. Chiropractic asks how they lived. Okay, chiropractic is a study of life. We have the principles of vitalism.

Dr. Ben Rall (12:34.05)
compared to mechanism, okay? So mechanism being more this where parts and pieces were a car. Now listen, there is a component of healthcare that's mechanistic, right? If you break your arm, it's a mechanistic injury, you need to set that bone, well, you don't have to set it, I would suggest setting it, and then right allows it to heal. Vitalism understands this reality that the body's more than the sum of its parts, right? That there's a live body and a dead body, they have the same parts and pieces, one has that thing.

that spark of life in it, all right, that we still can't necessarily even define perfectly, but chiropractic operates out of that principle that the body is a self-healing, self-regulating organism that desires health, desires healing. That's our premise, okay? Now, from that, we understand that the brain and spinal cord are the master controlling system of the body. Again, I think that's in Grey's Anatomy. We would all agree with that, right? That's how our body is designed. Now that happens to run through the spinal cord, and then out of the spinal cord comes all this

the nerves, the peripheral nervous system, and then that goes to all the organs and tissues and cells in the body. We look for pressures in that very strict chiropractic sense. We're looking to analyze the nerve system for pressures for interferences, and then to balance that or remove that. We don't believe in this almost starts from the beginning doc, we don't really believe in treating it. We those words almost are trigger words for us, right? We look at it like removing interference so the body can do what it's designed to do. I often say I don't I've never healed anybody.

right, meaning the body's designed to heal remove the interferences and then the body just goes back to normal. Now that's kind of more of a philosophical type of take on things chiropractic there's I went to a very medical minded chiropractic schools and there's these more vitalistic based chiropractic schools that are out there. So that's why you're going to have some of this, this spectrum of approaches in that and now many doctors including myself, we also get into lifestyle things that's not chiropractic specific, right? We don't own nutrition, we don't own fitness, we don't own detox.

But many of us do that because we understand that there's value to that in an overall healthy lifestyle It's a chiropractic and it's very strict sense is removing pressure from the nerve system Now some use a very hands-on technique right making noise cracking popping things that type of stuff, you know neck adjustments I do those on a daily basis and then there's very low force techniques very light techniques Right you were talking earlier about some of the other Eastern stuff right from Ricky to massage to that's not chiropractic. I mean, it's valuable

Dr. Ben Rall (14:54.838)
But some guys use their hands and make noise and things like that. And there's a lot of techniques. There's a lot of analyses. But all of them are designed to remove pressure from the nervous system. So I don't know if that answers your question a little bit there, Doc, but get us started, at least.

Sean (15:08.68)
It does. I do want you to be able to answer the best you can. What do you mean when you say the body is designed to heal?

Dr. Ben Rall (15:16.91)
Yeah. So thank you for that opportunity. I would say this the medical term I don't think it's not that weird. The medical term is homeostasis, right? The the word you're going to see in a textbook maybe is, is the double feedback loop this the fact that I'm sitting in a room right now that's 72 degrees, but my body temperature is 98.6. Right? It's doing that without my conscious awareness. We talked about the broken bone. The fact that somehow that body knows how to re knit that bone together.

the fact that I'm gonna take my lunch from yesterday and assimilate that into parts of my body and excrete out the excess that I don't need. The fact that if you have children, right, you've got children, I've got children, that somehow those were grown inside of my wife's womb without any doctor doing that, right? Where you're in a very real way, your body is incredibly, now, I come at it from a faith perspective, that's not a requirement, it's just the reality when you see that there is something's intelligent here.

right? There's a very, there's a very much design. Matter of fact, it was it was one of the big things that happened to me in chiropractic school was when we worked on human, you know, cadavers, people that had donated their bodies to science and when you when I opened up the body, I mean, it's morbid conversation, but you do that. And I remember seeing the inside of a human body for the first time. And it literally was one of those like, stopped me in my tracks moments. You can't look at that intricacy, the trillions of cells in our body.

that are operating right now for me to hear you or see you and formulate words and have a memory and walk across the room. That's not being done by me in the sense, right? There's that's holding me together and hoping and beating my heart while I sleep tonight and wake me up in the morning. And remembering yesterday and all those things that we just call normal biological processes. That to me is ordered. There's a design to that. Now, if things happen, can you in chiropractic, we say that there's limitations to matter meaning

I can jump off my garage roof and I won't probably die. But if I drop jump off a skyscraper, right, I'm going to reach a limitation of matter. It's the same thing with a medication, right? A little bit your body might tolerate, but a lot of it is going to likely kill you or overdose you. Okay, so we live in this in this band of the limitations of the design that we have, right? And then our premise would be let's work with that. Let's, let's give the body what it needs, and then remove

Dr. Ben Rall (17:40.662)
the excesses or remove the toxins. So it's a kind of a deficiency or a model or a toxic model. And so that's, I don't know if that answers it, Doc, but.

Sean (17:49.876)
It does. I've spoken to this previously on the podcast and I think it's part of my beliefs. I am amazed by human potential.

For us just to be here, you and I, all of us, what had to have occur throughout human history, our ancestors would have had to procreate before they died. And how the body, how beautifully designed that is to survive and thrive. And we can talk about it in terms of an intelligent design.

or we can talk about it in terms of what people view biologically, the adaptation to be able to continue to survive. And it is when you consider the existence of human beings, what we're doing in modern society with modern medicine amounts to an experimentation.

And so my question for you is, do you believe what we are actually doing in the allopathic medical model? Is that interfering with how our bodies have adapted and how they are designed to heal? In fact, that is actually creating sickness.

Dr. Ben Rall (19:09.358)
But not only do I believe it, I like wholeheartedly believe it, I believe it more every day that I exist. I think that it's that what you described if I'm hearing you correctly, I think it's actually a major, major part of the problem. And I'll give you a couple of just statistical reasons I would say that.

One is and you probably saw it a couple of weeks ago now maybe three weeks ago, article came out published in the journal the American Medical Association that showed the decrease in life expectancy has dropped again significantly for men it's now down to in the US it is down to 73.3 years. This is insane. Six year delta between women. This has happened mostly over the last four years. Last time it was reported we have a 54%

chronic disease in our children. 54% of our kids have a chronic disease. This is by the CDC. That's medically defined as a disease, a label, a diagnosis there they will have for the rest of their life. That's how it's viewed through that lens. We take more drugs than we've ever taken. We take more shots than we've taken. We see more doctors, we take more pills, we do more tests, we've unfolded the genome yet, yet. We're a sicker people than we've ever been. Okay, now.

There's some nuance in this that we can talk through potentially later in the show, but I would absolutely tell you that the major contributor to disease and a very specific is absolutely our approach to health care, our the model we call health care. When you apply a sick model to healthy people, you get sick people. It's you've written about this, the medicalization of society. I mean, this is a lot of that's just as big of it's the medical thinking. It's that people don't perceive themselves as designed to heal. They don't see that they're

built to thrive. They don't understand the trillions of things that are happening right now for them to even exist. Instead, they're in fear. They think, Oh, my goodness, where am I going to break down? I can't handle the air outside of my house without a mask on or some version of this, if you will. And so I wrote something to you just on my phone the other day. I don't know how you do it. But I guess get like a thought flash and I write it down. So I don't forget it because of the older I get. But I said, I was something like this. I said, we've got this whole thing backwards like

Dr. Ben Rall (21:23.766)
Like it's so much simpler than we've made it, right? With this experiment we're in is let's synthetically medicate people to mask symptoms with some illusion, faith, belief that is gonna be better than.

caring or stewarding what already exists. I use often, Roger, I use the example of a fishbowl, right? So if a fish bowl is our environment, and a fish is in there, and the fish water is dirty, the fish is going to get sick. This is not a, you know, earth shattering metaphor here. And so it would but it would be ridiculous to then medicate that fish for his fishy depression or his fishy fibromyalgia or his fishy headaches.

Okay, everybody would understand that we should simply clean up the water, the best shot that fish has at a healthy, long, wonderful life that he's designed to have is giving him the right environment. We've done the opposite. We've destroyed the environment, but literally like our glow are around us. But I'm also talking almost just our internal environment, right? The foods we eat, the stress we put ourselves in these types of things. And so what if it's all backwards? What if we have the whole thing?

backwards. Now let me make one quick caveat. I'm not talking about emergency traumatic medical care. That's not that's not this discussion. But by the way, my friends, that's only like 3% of health care. Okay, so like, I'm talking about all the rest. Okay, so if you fall off your roof and break your neck, like, don't eat an apple, you know what I mean? Like go get the best acute medical care you can get. But other than that, which is everything else we're talking about here, I would say that our medical care

is absolutely the problem. And I'm not alone in that. There was a great study, Journal of American Medical Association 2009, Dr. Kelo and Larson, and I'll paraphrase their quote, but it's pretty close to this. I use it all the time. It says we have to, and the headline of their article, and you might be familiar with it, was the understanding the harmful effects of healthcare. And they just added up the total populace of healthcare in the United States, and they said, is it working? Is the ROI there?

Dr. Ben Rall (23:28.766)
And they said we need to deal with the assumption, many of the assumptions in healthcare and that it's actually probably causing more harm than good. Wow. Right. Well, so then it's like, yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Sean (23:37.904)
I think there's no doubt. There's no doubt.

Sean (23:43.941)
My challenge is this, and you know, my brother's a smart, reasonable person, but I put him in that camp of somebody who just kind of blindly just followed recommendations without a second thought and accept a lot of things to be true because there was a, I guess, a trust in authority. Me personally, I can't stop but looking at how the population has changed since I was a kid.

the rates of obesity, the amount of people getting sick. I just recently wrote a sub stack on traditionally the concept of clinical depression was rather rare. Never more than three to 5% of a population would be identified as depressed at any one time. Those who would be identified as severely depressed would be even less than that. So much so that psychiatrists were a profession that were on the verge of extinction. You just didn't need psychiatrists, right?

Now we have over 20% of the US population identifying with a depressive episode, being depressed in a given year. We're looking at like 250% increases. Your statistics about chronic disease are absolutely correct. But they continue to push us down the same path. The same exact system that is implicated in making us all sick, we're supposed to blindly follow those recommendations, and I'm down on humanity.

because they just continue to do so, it is basically controlled by fear. And that's a whole nother conversation for us today, is the role of fear in sickness. But my question is this, and I think it's gonna open up a conversation about probably trying to pull the lens back.

Sean (25:33.792)
This has to be purposeful because it makes no sense. Human beings have this ability to deny reality, but you can't deny reality anymore. Look at all the statistics. Why would we continue to follow the same healthcare advice when our life expectancy is decreasing, our environment is making us sick? It's clear.

that there's going to be a looming fertility crisis if it hasn't been developed already because we have more than 50% decrease in testosterone. Let's pull the lens back. Why is this occurring?

Dr. Ben Rall (26:10.478)
Okay, well, when we say why, I think there's a few things that we can very much. I've said this before. For those of you that might be listening in your, you know, I've got, I've got to take care of a lot of different people. I've got cardiologists I take care of. I've got a lot of nurses I take care of. I got family practice doctors like this is, listen, please, I think you say this and I'll say this again, which is there's many wonderful, beautiful people that practice in health care.

This is not what this is. This isn't a personal attack, right? My brother-in-law is the president of a major hospital system, right? My mother-in-law worked for the president of hospital for three years. This is not a personal attack. We're talking about a system and it's actually part of the problem. We're so divorced from it, right? We're so many times the recommendations are just standard operating procedure, they're passed down through government or, or pharma, you know, pharmacies or insurance coverage, these types of things.

So, but there's a couple very specific facts that we can talk about that I think can help us understand this a little bit. One of them, and you've probably talked about this, but if we look back at what's called the Flexner Report, okay, now this is early 1900s in the United States, where, you know, we were joking a little bit earlier, I actually think I practice traditional healthcare. What I mean is just like, right, more just natural working with, by the way that healthcare was done for hundreds to thousands of years before modern pharmaceutical industry.

Okay, so during that time and Rockefeller, and it's often called Rockefeller medicine, and he was in charge of helping the Flexner report come along and funding that. And there was this reality that they were gonna put all of their money, if you will, and I'm generalizing all this, but they said we want evidence-based medicine, we're gonna fund the medical schools, it's gonna be, and when we say evidence, by the way, we mean our evidence and the way we wanna be it, and it's gonna be biochemically, synthetic chemically, a lot of it by petroleum-based.

you know, products, of course, which is no surprise with Rockefeller. And at the time, honestly, he had a he had a lot of money and he had a lot of influence. And it's no different today. We see those names are old names, because we don't hear of Rockefeller so much. But oh, my goodness, the names may change a little bit. But we're still seeing the exact same implications in healthcare, whether it's a Bill Gates, if you want to throw that name in there or other pharmaceutical industry. So there has absolutely like I mentioned earlier, that's why we mean this is historical reality.

Dr. Ben Rall (28:38.454)
We won in court against the AMA because they were trying to destroy the profession of chiropractic. Like they wanted us gone. The only reason we survived is because what you mentioned earlier Roger is results. Sick people got well, all right? And because of that, it's always gonna win. The truth is going to come out. But there is absolutely an agenda. I've written, read countless books on this from former heads of pharmaceutical industries that literally said,

main guys at Merck, one of the past presidents, and he said, I've always envied Wrigley bubble gum, where there's a product that people take multiple times a day, right? I want to I want my company to be like that. I want them to take something in the morning. I wanted to take something in the afternoon. I want them to take something at night. People often will ask me well, why isn't chiropractic coverage better under you know, and covered up better under insurance and these types of things. And maybe you guys hear that in your world. Why don't if your approach is so great? Why don't

more people cover it, those types of things. And the more you ask these questions, it begins to reveal that the people that you call healthcare, the insurance card you carry in your pocket, the pharmacy down the street, the, you know, it's called, often called the medical industrial complex, just like you might understand the medical, or the, you know, the military industrial complex, the war machine, if you will, these kinds of ideas. It's, my friends, the pharmaceutical,

industry and insurance industry and big government those that triad of tyranny is it's worse than you even think I'll give you one quick story. My sister is an attorney. She graduated top of her class and she was recruited by a big law firm and she chased the dollar signs and she knows my position on these things and I've been doing this for a long time. And so the place she went to work was a they defended drug companies and insurance companies they were a defense firm and so surprise that's who was paying the most right.

Now, even though my sister was very smart and all that, she was still starting on the bottom rung. She was there for a few weeks and she calls me, and I've always been very outspoken, and she calls me and she says, she says, Ben, it's worse than you think. What she saw in a few weeks at the bottom of the totem pole, she says, I already feel like the blood's on my hands. She quit, she said, I can't do this, I can't be part of this. And so, but it's hard.

Dr. Ben Rall (31:05.058)
doc for I think that cognitive dissonance. It's hard for people to believe it because the lie has been so reinforced in their mind through propaganda and the illusions and TV. I mean, all of it, all of it. It's all true. We've seen all the studies on the amount of money spent in commercials and we're only two nations that allow direct to consumer advertising, all the things that we know about healthier. But listen, just because you know that doesn't mean it hasn't affected you. You might be listening to this and go, yeah, I know. And it's for some reason.

Roger, people are like opening up to this a little bit in the mental health space, I feel like there's like a crack happening in the world you guys live in, like more people are realizing antidepressants are what they thought they were. And there's all these side effects. But I will tell you, the mind has and people woke up to the COVID jab stuff, you know, that was a big deal. But people still are taking a whole lot of dope in this country, right? Like the medical model problem is not just with COVID jabs and, you know, mental health space, it's corrupted from top to bottom.

in almost every area. Now I know I'm getting a little intense and maybe people go, man, he just hates medicine. Actually, I love health. Like I'm like you, human potential. I love healthcare. I love giving people ideas and better ways to understand it. But what most people call healthcare is quite the opposite. They're literally poisoning themselves to bed. Is it the Stockholm syndrome? Is that the actual term, Roger, where you love your oppressor? Is that, am I stealing that? Is that the right term? You know, people that are held captive and they start having feelings for the person that's abusing them, right?

Sean (32:29.78)
Yeah.

Dr. Ben Rall (32:34.966)
This is what much of happens in healthcare. They're labeled poisoned, you know, given a diagnosis, given another diagnosis, come back in, get more tests, fear, you know, handing over their health disempowered, and then they get worse, and they think they're doing everything they can, but it's actually they're poisoning themselves to death in a medical sense, right? But they think they're doing all they can. It's a real, it's...

It's an illusion and it's very, you know, ironic is a nice word. But I mean, there's my first rant on it. What do you, what's your take on it?

Sean (33:11.296)
Have you looked into the transhumanism movement?

Dr. Ben Rall (33:15.858)
Yeah, I'm reading a book on it right now. Another book on it. Yeah.

Sean (33:21.064)
My guess is that most people are not truly aware of that movement and how it is. Explain it because I'm not aware either. I guess a great person who kind of symbolizes it right now would be Bill Gates. And there's a book out right now, To Be a Machine. Now are people interpreting his actions as transhumanism or as he's... No, it's part of his philosophy. Transhumanism is anti-human.

It's a belief that we can and should eradicate aging as a cause of death and that we can and should use technology to augment our bodies and our minds, that we can and should merge with machines, remaking ourselves in a higher image. Now the people that tend to drive this movement or ideal have antipathy against

human nature. Their belief is right now there's about 8 million people that populate the 8 billion people that populate the world. They believe the earth is not really designed to hold more than about 1 billion people. And in fact, that having a population of 8 billion is going to destroy the planet. Now, what happens to get to under 1 billion?

Well, first, there's a belief system. There's a belief system that most people that populate the earth are parasites. They do nothing but consume resources. Their personal value, because there is a sociopathic nature to them, there's no connection to the soul, there's no connection to God, there's the illusion of separation, that they are God, they are God-like. Now, the small group of people have funded

This stuff is all out there. This used to be conspiracy theorists, right? Who would actually talk about these things. It's, they're so brazen now, you can go to the World Economic Forum website and they can outline their mission. You can listen to them speak, you can YouTube and talk about how that part of, and I don't understand how more vaccines leads to depopulation, but they make the connection because they believe depopulation and climate change are a threat to humanity. Now,

Sean (35:47.56)
You step back and you understand a lot of what is happening through the transhumanistic movement is experimental. An mRNA technological intervention for a COVID novel virus is an experimentation. It's not studied on human beings. It's not evaluated. There's no randomized controlled trials. It was never proven to eradicate COVID. It's part of the transhuman movement. It's you, everything is an experimentation.

and it's experimentation on the general population, the people they view as parasites because they don't have any inherent value. You're all gonna live, you're all gonna die. We can waste generations to try to save the greater picture, which is our genetics, our planet, and we can decrease that population. And we can actually convince people who can be politicians and who can have powerful positions in society that what they're doing is saving the planet.

That undermines a lot of things that are being driven right now. People are so outside the understanding of they do not get it. Their doctor is there to help them. They believe this is the best available evidence and they have the capacity to deny anything that is actually happening. You know, we shove all this money into cancer research. Do you ever go look at the, at the statistics? Same thing with like my field, right? We have all these drugs.

but yet the diseases continue to multiply and become more chronic and more severe. And so when I'm down on humanity, it's because we're so easily mass conditioned.

Sean (37:30.312)
Yeah, for an outsider or somebody that, you know, hasn't really been involved in the healthcare system for very long or hasn't had their own personal experience where they were harmed by it. I understand how that type of narrative can be a conspiracy theory and why people would say like that is so far out there that to achieve something like that, nobody would ever sit back and allow it to happen. Like people would rise up like that would be what my gut reaction would be is like.

But people won't rise up. And that's the part of being sick, obedient, obese, dependent, conditioned. You can learn a lot through Nazi Germany and you can learn a lot from looking at history. History is, yes, absolutely. The idea of a free society, the overwhelming political systems that have existed on the planet Earth have been totalitarianism.

fascism and colonialism. People have been enslaved throughout world history and they're enslaved throughout history right now in countries, right? Not throughout history, in modern times, right? You can identify all the countries that are currently enslaved. The United States as an idea, because it's an idea, right? Was it government by the people and for the people all around freedom?

And so that was an experiment that we can elect officials that can act in our best interest. Most people do not realize that is by the wayside, that an entire system has been hijacked. We have an idea of democracy, a constitutional republic, but it continues to get violated through fear, through control, through creating crisis.

which lead people to give up their freedoms and give up their rights. Medical freedom is part of this. When you do not have freedom about what to put into your own body, you are not in a free society because you are blindly trusting that someone else knows what is best for your body. You can mass apply that to all human beings and that's gonna be better off for humanity. Even despite evidence.

Sean (40:00.404)
capacity to deny evidence. And that is, in my opinion, it's influenced by fear. Fear allows us to be controlled. Fear gives up your rights. And that allows those systems to flourish.

Sean (40:20.264)
You look confused. I, I'm not confused. Um, I understand the role of fear because people do make decisions emotionally. Um, but I don't know, it's just, it's hard to swallow all those. All those potential influences that are happening across the board. And I guess that's where you and I always come to what needs disagreement would be, be intent behind things. What needs to happen in order for us to trust that.

what they've put in print and what they believe is going to be implemented over the next decade. So let's start with their war on animal products, red meat. Dr. Ben, what do you think is some of the most nutrient loaded foods that the human body requires in order to thrive?

Dr. Ben Rall (41:04.17)
Yeah.

Dr. Ben Rall (41:16.778)
Well, not bugs. You know, I'm a Midwestern guy, you said I'm from South Dakota, right? So I'm a literally a meat and potatoes person. Right. And when you think about the density of

nutrients that go into making, for example, animal products, right. And the there's just there's just some realities about nutrients that we and this goes right back to the conversation earlier doc, which is, what are we designed to need to survive? Right? And what does our body need? We need we need. We need multiple things. We need water, we need sun, we need we need meat, we need we need animal products, we need now people can survive. This is what people get confused about, especially with nutrition.

Most people eat so horribly that when they do any changes, they get better because they're living on garbage. So when they go vegetarian, they feel better. They go keto, they feel better. They go carnivore, they feel better, right? And for a season, okay? And I'm not even here to have a debate on all, but I'm explaining why most people think they do better and those diets get popular, right? And they wanna lose some weight and things like that. But the reality, what's mostly happening most of the time is they were eating so much garbage, right? That they...

they get off of that. But man, I just finished a great book called ultra processed people. And it's all about this. And it's in Sean, almost to your kind of honest responses to this. And I think, Raj, you put it really good, which is like, what do you need to see to know how bad it is? So you'll actually finally believe me, some people think, why do you just always rail on medicine or rail on this stuff? I said, because I'm trying to wake you up. If I could do it through a pamphlet, if I could do it through just a nice little bumper sticker, I would do it that way.

But there's so much pressure and so much agenda pressing down on you. And you've been so brainwashed, not you, Sean, but people, right? That we, that doesn't work. It's like you need to be either, you need to have total, you need to be that guy that was on the podcast you were talking about his son and, you know, the horrible effects of antidepressants. I know you don't talk about it all the time just to be like the guy that hates antidepressants. It's because they're an actual problem and you don't actually think they are.

Sean (43:12.948)
No, you can put me in there.

Dr. Ben Rall (43:32.458)
right? There was a you might know the filmmaker Mickey Willis, he made the movie Plan-Demic and over you know, some other great movies, but he was an extreme and he said this publicly, so I'm not just going to set it on my podcast. But he was an extreme, like extreme liberal progressive guy, okay, like, like the full extent. And he said, and you made me think about this, Roger, he said when he realized the nihilistic mindset of that perspective, that we are parasites.

that the only solution is we have to be gone. Like we're the problem, we are the problem. We're making other people, we're making kids, we're eating resources, we're using, I mean, think about it, just what you said. You're burning fossil fuels, you're causing global warming, you're having more children, you're eating things, you're driving cars. Like literally the answer is there's too many of you. That is, I don't know, anti-life, that's demonic, that's.

He means the three of us are part of the problem. I was with a friend of mine this morning, I was talking to him and he's always wanted to have a family and he's a great guy. And he goes, he says to me, he's like, Ben, I think I feel guilty having a kid. Now this is a guy who's just like a normal dude, like just like us, not extreme, nothing, just he wants to have a family, but the perspective that he's been brainwashed to believe, right, two things. Number one is that he looked at as he's a bad person. And then also, and I think this is part of it.

He goes, I don't even know if I want to bring him into this world. Which is I think the fear part, Roger, where for the good people that are going, no, I don't believe we're part of the problem, but I don't want my kids to have to put up with where this place is going. And I think that's part of the problem too. We have to resist this by being normal, by procreating, right? By eating a hamburger, by driving a car. And I don't, I'm not.

somebody that believes in destroying the environment. I believe in stewardship of all those things. I believe in stewardship of my body, my family, my environment, right? I don't think anybody disagrees with it. Well, I'm sure some people do, but I don't know, that's some thoughts.

Sean (45:40.7)
Yeah, I do believe we need to take care of our environment. But look how much we're deforesting. We are the chemicals that are added to our atmosphere and to our food. I mean, we're literally being poisoned. And they're talking about cow farts, you know, as methane gas is a primary driving factor here. And therefore, we have to eliminate the use of cows, which would have a

Dr. Ben Rall (45:47.4)
Yeah.

Dr. Ben Rall (46:05.398)
and stoves, stoves apparently, yeah. Ha ha ha.

Sean (46:07.636)
stoves or other things that would have a profoundly negative effect on our own health. Ted Turner. I was actually going to play this clip, but we chose not to. Ted Turner believed that a total population of 250 to 300 million people was ideal, which would be a 95% decline from present levels. He 15 years ago, you can find this on the internet. He's on an interview with Charlie Rose. And Ted Turner.

owned CNN, he's an influential guy. He said that the changes needed to be made to save humanity from impending collapse from overpopulation and climate change within the next 15 to 20 years. And it requires a global cooperation from every single country, including major corporations. That was 15 years ago. So it's 15 years now. And the same people are saying the same things.

Dr. Ben Rall (46:36.191)
Right.

Sean (47:02.54)
They're arguing for reduced consumption of meat, more abortions, geoengineering and solar radiation management programs, finding ways to decrease fertility of the human population, many other anti-human agenda goals that are clearly stated. We deny all this, but we follow the recommendations that are put out by those experts, those quote unquote experts, the ones that control the narratives through their...

through the pharmaceutical companies. The pharmaceutical companies are absolutely powerful in these agendas, right?

The idea that we would give so many young, healthy people vaccinations is becoming more and more concerning to me. I'm not ready to do a podcast on it because I'm in the middle of my research, but I needed to understand why my own child was being forced. They actually recommended that she take some time off because she's unwilling to get a flu vaccine. And why is she unwilling to get a flu vaccine? Because she was put in...

Dr. Ben Rall (48:02.158)
Wow.

Sean (48:08.72)
anaphylactic shock when she got it. She has a medical exemption. And they're still trying to guilt her into getting a flu vaccine in order to continue with her doctoral program in a healthcare field. And I'll go more and more public with this when I get more and more information. But we read the study in here, there's about a 2% chance you're going to get the flu. You get a flu vaccine that you could be able to decrease it to 1% chance. The idea that we're putting these things into

Dr. Ben Rall (48:25.067)
Mm.

Dr. Ben Rall (48:30.284)
Yeah.

Sean (48:37.152)
healthy young people in such an experimental way is part of a transhumanistic movement because it is engineering, it is trying to change the body because the body is not naturally designed to heal.

Dr. Ben Rall (48:52.554)
It's that fundamental. Sorry, go ahead, Sean. Well, I was just gonna say it's, it's this is why I spend so much time trying to help people understand we are designed to heal because without that fun foundational understanding, we will then the other understanding would be that we're going to make it better. We're going to fix it, we're going to improve upon the design. And then that is a that is a race to the end. That is a that is a downward spiral till we actually at some point, we can go actually we didn't improve it.

Sean (48:54.513)
No, go ahead, Dr. Ben.

Dr. Ben Rall (49:20.886)
I've got some friends that live in Florida and they live on the coast and they've watched what the government in times has tried to do. So these are like good old boys lived in the water fishermen, they understand hunting and natural things. And then they'll come in and they'll, they'll damn up some area to try to improve something right improve the natural design and they'll destroy it right, it becomes a desert, it becomes this. And they're like, if they would ask us, they're like, we know how to fix it, right? You broke the natural, you broke the natural law.

My point is this, once the runaway train is, oh no, we have to come up with more synthetic chemicals. There's 200 plus vaccines in the pipeline right now. Like sometimes you have to do a mind exercise to expose it to yourself. Like when would be enough? I mean, we have 300 when they're born, 466. There's trillions of bacteria and viruses out there. Should we make a vaccine for every one of them? And then of course a booster every year. Like at what point is it, at what point do you stop? And so this, it's a...

And many reasons, the only reason is able to continue is because the body is actually so amazing at kind of putting up with it. It actually, the design of the body is so amazing that you can actually assault it quite a bit before it totally breaks down and you think, oh, I'm kind of getting away with this. I heard you talking about your daughter on one of those podcasts, Roger, and I was like, oh man, my daughter is 16 and 14, or my son's 14. And I was like, I heard you say something like, I'm willing to, you know.

I don't know what you said, like not kill over this, but like I'll do whatever it takes, right? Yeah, go to war over this.

Sean (50:53.248)
No, I'll go to war over this. This is a fight that I want to bring up because I do believe medical freedom is a defining moment of our time.

Dr. Ben Rall (50:59.414)
Benjamin Rush, medical doctor, one of the signers, the Declaration of Independence said that this that medical freedom should have been in the in the Constitution in the Bill of Rights, because without it, we'd end up where we are right now. My kids are 16 and 14. They've never been vaccinated. They've never had a pharmaceutical drug in their body. My son was born at home I practiced and when I was in South Dakota time, mid wifery home midwifery was illegal. So I couldn't have a midwife at my house. So I had to drive across to another state have my son born at home. I mean, like I

I take this very seriously. My kids are robustly healthy. And I preach I'm laughing at you, Roger. So you're not sure if you're ready to go into the vaccine show yet. But you bring up depopulation today. I love that you're willing to go down the depopulation conversation. But even you brought up Bill Gates. I mean, his father was a eugenicist. Like this is public knowledge. Go look at the World Economic Forum. Like you owe it to yourself to ask yourself some of these questions because

It's, you know, a head in the sand, you know, ah, it's too much, I don't want to think about it. It overwhelms me, it's kind of scary, it shakes my foundation. It is destabilizing for a little bit. That is real. It destabilizes your worldview a little bit. But then the dust settles. And all of a sudden, now you can see it. Now you see what's happening and you can understand, why do they want my daughter to go think about it a little bit? Like,

that's not for her betterment. That's not because they're really worried about her and we're not really worried about the flu. There's more to this story. But I get it. Once you come out and say those kinds of things, of course I'm comfortable. And that's one of the reasons I kind of joked or I sent you that voicemail, Roger. I meant it very wholehearted or very sincerely, which is I want listeners to know that this is, there's been a lot of people on this road for a long time. There's been dissenters to the medical approach for a long time.

Now more people are waking up and I welcome, I love it. I love it. I love when an outspoken medical doctor and come starts talking about this stuff. And we've had many of them on our show because I wanna support that. But I also wanna honor those people that have fought in the wilderness, right? Fought against fluoride for years or fought against childhood jabs, all this stuff. And history does tend to repeat itself. And so for people that are waking up to this, more and more and more.

Dr. Ben Rall (53:13.13)
and learning better questions to ask and learning that there, I want them to be encouraged. There is a whole other world out there. It's not as scary as it feels. It feels scary because you believe the only way was I take an antidepressant when I feel depressed, but I don't even know what feel depressed means. They must tell me, or actually somebody will tell me if I'm depressed or not because I sat in front of them and they know more about me than I do. And all this such is such a, you know, angers me so much because the reason it makes me mad is because it's people like you guys, people like your patients, people like your children.

right, that we get played in this game were casualties. And actually they see that as a victory because they got rid of us, you know, meaning, you know, literally got rid of us or shut us up for sure.

Sean (53:51.084)
see, in my experience with this, when I see as why the problem is what it is, I just think the whole medical system here in the United States has gotten so incredibly large, the hospital networks, you don't think that's intentional? I think it's capitalism that's just working its way through it is it is absolutely not capitalism. Let's go to the affordable care because yes, that actually is a result of this. Do you think the intentions were pure in the Affordable Care Act on the idea of private

Dr. Ben Rall (54:11.534)
Ha ha ha.

Sean (54:20.012)
practice no longer exists. I think it's like statistics I saw was like, I'm going to try and make sure it's as accurate. I'll include a link in the summary. It's like 70% of doctors, maybe more are now employees. They no longer have the right to say the things that they truly believe because they're employed by a larger. Do you think that was unintentional? I don't intent. I don't know. Yeah, the affordable care act was an act of war on independent doctors. Independent doctors can

function independently. They live in their communities. They can care about the people that they're serving. When you work in a large hospital system, you develop no relationships. People are in, people are out. They follow guidelines. Who are the guidelines established by? The interest, special interest, right? And lawyers. And so they are doing this mass medicine to see as many people as they can and to give as many

quickly. So it is financial part of it, but it's also part of the larger design of getting people to be sick and obedient, submissive. Look in the history, what did Stalin and Adolf Hitler find out about fluoride? Oh that it makes people docile and you can control them. Yeah very submissive, docile, they put it in the water in concentration camps.

You think that our government doesn't know that. We put it in toothpaste. You don't think that.

Dr. Ben Rall (55:51.211)
They're not that worried about our cavities.

Sean (55:55.396)
I mean, imagine what you would have to accept to believe intentions are pure. You'd have to accept that people in positions of authority or power are absolute idiots. They're just really, really dumb and they're just walking around falling upon these things and it's just capitalism gone amok. You'd have to think what's going on right now. Purposely dividing people on identity characteristics has no other agenda.

This is exactly what happened in Nazi Germany. It's how people were controlled. People were mass conditioned by putting people into in-groups and out-groups. Now we are doing the same thing based on identity characteristics around race, around gender. Do you know what the United States government right now has identified as the largest terrorist threat? No. White.

Nationalists, whoever they are. Okay, so white means an identity characteristic, a skin color, which is now a minority group in the United States. So you are by the color of your skin, and if you're a nationalist, that means basically you're probably a constitutionalist. You believe that your government is there to serve the people of your country and your community. So anyone who is going to stand up against the authority of a government or a medical authority will be someone who...

subscribes to these ideas of freedom. And so that's why you identify them as a terrorist group, because when they do...

when they do fight against the totalitarianism or the authority in any capacity, which has been done throughout history, which is exactly how the United States was developed in the first place, well then you can identify them as a terrorist threat. They're all being planted for us, they're being provided to us. Why do you think presidents of major universities can sit in front of the US Senate or US Congress,

Sean (57:55.148)
quickly dismiss how dangerous it is and how it would be a violation of policy for the mass eradication of a group of people. Lawyers, I go back to lawyers. They were answering those questions in the form of a legal statement, not in the form of a moral statement. That's okay.

Dr. Ben Rall (58:13.934)
Now Sean, I don't wanna double team you here, right? Like I don't get defend yourself. And I have to laugh too, because my wife's an attorney. So, you know, to defend that too. But, and I hear, but at some point, even if like, I know what you're saying, like.

Well, it's legal, it's they're protecting, it's this, it's that, it's big companies, it's too big to fail stuff, this kind of stuff. But at some point, like, we can't keep passing the buck. Like, I don't want to come out after you, Sean. I mean, this is to people that are listening. Will our brains will always try to find an off ramp to justify just to keep going with it. So it's like to Roger's question, like, what would it take? I'm going to read you these are this just came out earlier this year. This is about the life the United States healthcare system, because if you want to say, oh, it's capitalism, or it's just big business, like

Sean (58:48.308)
Yes.

Dr. Ben Rall (58:59.966)
Here's the reality of where we sit right now. The United States has the lowest life expectancy at birth, at the highest death rates for avoidable, treatable conditions, the highest maternal and infant mortality rate, and among the highest rates of suicide. The US has the highest rate of people with multiple chronic conditions and obesity rate, and nearly twice the average of all the other nations. We have the, it's like, how can we sit there in a country, you know, America, that spends as much money as we spend, and I don't know if you guys had this on,

your show or not, but they're actually talking about now women with antidepressant use that the average person is expected to be on antidepressants for like 12 or 13 years of their life, the average woman. A drug that doesn't even, in my opinion, shouldn't even really be on the market, yet the average woman's gonna be on it for 13 years of their life now, like one of the largest selling drugs that we have, like at some point, you have to come to the conclusion, the whole thing, can you swear on this podcast, Roger? The whole thing is a pile of shit.

Sean (59:55.616)
Yes, go.

Dr. Ben Rall (59:59.194)
We would be better off without it. And that's hard for people to hear because they go, no, but what about my uncle Bill? And if he wouldn't have had it, it would have died. You know what? There's 13 other uncle Bills that got killed because of it. This is the point. People think, and I'll say it, you guys don't have to say it, but it does more harm than good. We spend trillions of dollars on quote, healthcare, and we're sicker because of it. At some point, no, I'm not saying you have to burn the whole thing down. You might have to, that's not the point.

Admit that it's really shitty. Okay, then at that point, we can actually begin to think about real solutions. Instead of trying to figure out more poison put in the water to make the fish not feel its pain, we can start to clean up the water. And guess what, when you do that, it's not the fishy genetics, it's not the fishy this it's not the we need more tests and we need more labels. It's we have to clean up the water. It's that it's it is that simple. Listen, we're all gonna die. It's not about living forever. That's you know, it well transhumanism. It's maybe about living forever. But

And that's some of it, this love of self, not love of self, but just this love of, this fear. It really becomes this, you know, this self, you know, a fear of, honestly, to some degree, fear of death, which again, I don't, there's a healthy relationship to that. I'm simply saying, we've like handed, one of the words, and you probably know it too, Sean, you know, is at agency capture, right? These places have become corrupt. I don't believe that they all started that way. I don't think that, I think there was some good intentions at the beginning, but it was quickly, like any good thing, you know, any good thing often corrupted. It was...

it got infiltrated. We've seen that with the revolving door of pharmaceutical country, you know, companies and, you know, FDA, like, so I get it. It's like, I want any other answer. You know, I think you guys have, you know, no, Dell Big Tree has the high wire show, right? He's a good friend. But he talked about, he was getting interviewed about autism and vaccines. And he was making the statement that somebody had said, like, Oh, you know, these parents are just looking for something to blame. This was this was the argument that is put to him, right? They're just looking to blame the vaccine for the autism.

And I just thought his answer was great. And I think it's appropriate in this conversation. He said, I've talked to thousands of, this is him, right? He says, I've talked to thousands, tens of thousands of over the work he's done over the years. And he said, it's the last conclusion they want to come to, to think that something they did and they gave to their child and because they didn't research it or they didn't wanna believe it or they didn't, it's actually the worst.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:02:21.57)
conclusion that they come to, because they were actually in part of how why it happened, right. And I think we just we don't want to believe it. Okay, because but here's the and here's why I think there's hope in this. The system might be too big, it feels too big to change the system feels I don't know where to start. Here's the great thing about health, mental health, physical health, emotional, whatever you listening to this, you can opt out of it today.

Like that's what's great. So sometimes there's stuff that is really hard. Like I don't know how to change certain things because they really are so big. But my personal health and my family's health, we do not operate in the traditional medical model at all zero. I have no interest. It doesn't impress me. It's not cool. I don't spend my money on it. I do other things. I just do and I've been doing real well for a matter of fact, the bad times were when I engaged in it. And so there is hope in this. It's overwhelming, right? Like you start talking about WEF and we start talking about these very real agendas that are out there.

Very real, like no conspiracy. They say it, go look at it, read the book. But you don't have to live in fear of it. You can right now start finding that the people you bring on the podcast, people bring on my podcast, doctors like you, doctors like myself, they're out there and they love to help you. They want to help you. They have real solutions that make real sense to you. It's not all hugs and rainbows. Not everybody gets 100, you know what I mean? Like it isn't like you magically all diseases you ever had go away and every.

you know, cancer falls away and every diabetes is reversed. But I'll tell you, I've been doing this 20 years, 20,000 patients, like we do pretty well. Like I'll put my statistics up against people, right? I'm okay with that. I think we do pretty good. I'm those statistics that I read, I don't have 54%, you know, chronic diseases in my office. I don't have those things. We have got healthy, thriving people. So I know I went on a rant there, but I'll hand it back to you.

Sean (01:04:11.924)
Doc, you said it best earlier, we're all going to die. So the goal here isn't to live forever, but it's to live as well, as long as possible, right? And that's what's happening now, our people are not living well. Although the life expectancy is decreasing, people are getting sicker, younger. Now, if you look at our entire system, Sean,

Sean (01:04:36.156)
Economically speaking, if a percentage of our population, I don't know that exact population, actually does get well and no longer has to rely on the sick care model, our economy crashes. That's how dependent we are now on the healthcare system, that it not only supports professions, but people being sick in the pharmaceutical industry and going to their doctors and everything else kind of props up this economy.

the service economy that exists right now. That's why you look back at the Affordable Care Act and you realize, you see economists were saying that the health insurance industry was gonna crash because people were getting older and getting sicker and you needed to subsidize that through the young and the healthy and you had to get young and healthy people into the system. You get them into the system, you have them going to doctors, you get them mass conditioned into this way of thinking about your life.

You make sure you do all these early screenings. You make sure you see your doctor in your early visit. You make sure you get this shot at this particular time. It's a mass conditioning process that leads people to believe that we are under the beacon of scientific supremacy. See, now I look at it this way. If people start shifting the way that they behave and they start living more healthy and living a better lifestyle and not going into the medical system,

That money then shifts towards other things that actually benefit them. So instead of that financial investment going towards medical care, then you're spending it on higher quality food. You're spending it on activities and enjoyment outside that actually provides joy to your life. So it's not like our economy would collapse. It would just, money would be allocated towards other areas that actually serve and benefit them.

Under an ideal system under an ideal system that would be the case But that's not the system in which we're under and I know I know what my biggest flaw is as a human is I do believe that the world is just that there is a just world and And and that is something that I'm aware of and I kind of like that about me because it makes me more of an optimist now the only thing no What you're just saying is I

Sean (01:06:47.208)
I choose, I choose, I choose to deny reality so I can feel good today. Those are the words you're putting into my mouth. That's exactly the same thing. You didn't let me finish my statement because you spoke over me. So I listened to some of Dr. Ben's podcasts and we were about 115 episodes and he's done 300. Now I can't go out there and spread this to the entire world and get people to take action. I could only let it affect my own life and how I raise, you know, my child.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:06:54.954)
Uh...

Sean (01:07:15.032)
And those that I really care about and love, like friends and family. So many times there's been conversations on this podcast that have nothing to do with me, but I realized that they connect to somebody else in my life and I'll share it with them and I'll say, you need to listen to this. And this is something that you need to think about when you make your decisions for your future. And I think that's all we can do. I disagree. I actually believe we're all going to be in a position and we're not too far away. We're all going to have to resist.

There's going to have to be a mass resistance. By resisting, you can remove yourself from the medical system. Like resist that pressure. Like that's what resisting is. It's choosing what's right for you. You didn't resist the first time around. But this is what I'm talking about is like when people, you're not sharing information, you're not having conversations. It's happening right now. There's a transformation that happens, but that just only becomes when people are exposed to things or if they've been harmed or a family member has been harmed. That's when they become aware. If anybody's...

as young and they haven't been involved in the medical system at all. They're not even putting their attention over there yet. That's the cultural problem I think I'm concerned about is that you have a distracted population. Yeah, you know, drink your beer, watch your Netflix, we got NFL on Sunday. This can't ever happen. Thursday and Friday. No, you just you don't think about these greater things and you stay in the system like we've talked about sickness for you, right? That you get sick multiple times.

over the course of the year and you still believe it's because you catch someone's germs. And Dr. Ben, I want you to jump in here because that's the mass fear conditioning. Dr. Ben, come on. My son got sick. His entire school was sick. My wife got sick and I got sick. So fill me in. What's another way to think about it?

Dr. Ben Rall (01:08:46.518)
Sorry, you just got. I'm sorry. Well, that I well I well throw. There you go. There you go. Oh, man. I was one of my favorite so just because I like you know, there's certain things I love about my profession and one of the quotes that came out of our profession it says this. If the germ theory was true, we'd all be dead. Right. If the germ theory is through there'd be nobody here to talk about it right.

Now, is there the reality that germs exist? So there's three of us on this call right now. If you swabbed all of our throats, one of us would test positive for strep throat. However, none of us are actively assuming, aren't actively expressing that, right? We've got trillions of bacteria and germs in us and all sorts of things. We don't even know that we don't even know about yet. Okay, now, but this is a good example, Sean, what you just said. So I've, again, I'll use me as an example. I practiced.

You know, for 20 years, I lay on, well, that sounded weird. I don't lay on patients, but I mean, I'm a chiropractor. I adjust people, I touch people all day long. Lots of them, all right. I've literally never missed a day at work, all right. And I'm not, I understand again, that people get sick. My kids get the boogers, it happens, okay. But it's also, there's a way of reframing this. And I don't wanna go too in the weeds here, but I would tell you, what did we see happen through the COVID jobs? So we're now is what's called the negative efficacy.

meaning the more jabs you get, the more chance you have at getting COVID. It didn't make you healthier, it made you sicker. It actually made you more susceptible. Some of the things, it's just like the antidepressant world. People think, oh, I'm not responding, I need more, right? No, the problem is it made you worse, okay? So I take my antibiotics, I use my antibacterial stuff on my hands, I do this, I do that. You don't realize, not you, Sean, necessarily, but people don't realize that that's actually making them worse. You know, drugs aren't vitamins. Drugs aren't, they don't make you healthier. They don't...

boost your immune system. That's not how it works. But we've been so conditioned to be so afraid of, by the way, the whole germ kind of, not germ theory, but it's a great book called The Curse of Louis Pasteur, I believe it's called. It talks about this and it talks about the time in history where this really happened. It was right about when antibiotics came out and was also very, the cultural mentality was about war. So it was this war on germs. That's when it came, right? We can, we're gonna kill the germs. We're gonna kill the bad guy.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:11:08.234)
Now what are we waking up into? We're realizing that was probably not the case. I would, there's a lot of things that might take this world out. One of them may very well be what we've done through antibiotics. So we said, oh, look at how great they were. Has there been people's lives in a man's antibiotics? Undoubtedly. If it creates a super bug that wipes out the population, do we just say, well, that's what you do? See, we pushed the hand. We're trying to like force the hand of God almost. So how do you get sick and your kids get sick? Now, sometimes it's just because you're

and I don't know your lifestyle, we're just living on healthy lifestyles. Okay, we're all a lot of times, the flu season happens to happen right around after Halloween, right? After everybody walks around with pillowcases to their neighbors gets a whole bunch of junk food, lives on sugar starts having holiday parties. And we say, I don't know, it's going around. Right? Well, part of that, well, if it went around, how come it missed me? How come? How did it jump over me? And I'm not, I don't know, I don't live some perfect lifestyle. I don't take seven million vitamins every single day. I just, we're actually designed to be out in the world in the environment. Also, when you quote, get sick.

A lot of the things we call getting sick is the body doing the proper response, right? A fever is not bad, a fever is the body doing the right thing. A cough is annoying, but it's still the body trying to clear airwaves. You know, when your body says, hey, lay down and take a rest, it's not doing it because it's mad at you or wants you to miss work. It's trying to allow your body the chance to heal. But what do we do? We take cough suppressants, we take fever reducers, we take pain medications. And then we wonder matter of fact, there's research that shows when you take fever lowering medications, antipyretics.

It actually increases chances of pneumonia and hospitalizations because it reduces your body's ability to heal. But we think we need them to get better. And we attribute the healing to the pill instead of the power of the body that did this. And so we get stuck in this cycle and we think that we need that to happen. And so why do we get sick? There is no now there's some out there not even out there. There's just some great books. Zach Bush, Dr. Zach Bush is a great guy. He has some really intelligent stuff on

immune system, I'll tell you this, I don't think we understand the immune system at all. I don't think I think we have such a ridiculously juvenile appreciation for the immune system. So when we try to just oversimplify it, like, you know, there's this thing and bad germs get in that kills them. I don't think we even understand that Dr. Bush will talk about how a lot of times we're allowed to get the body literally gets sick to actually boost itself. It says it needs an exposure. You'll notice this with little kids, Sean, I think you have a little kid, right little one. After a sickness, you'll often see a growth spurt.

Sean (01:13:23.531)
Yeah.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:13:26.166)
you'll see they'll start to walk after sickness. They'll, right? It's amazing, it's almost, yeah, it's almost like part of the design. Now, of course, if you're listening to this and you're chronically ill, I'm not sitting here saying, hey, it's so awesome, you're sick all the time. But don't, the totality of sickness is not about the germs. And here's what I would tell people, you're not gonna get rid of the germs, you shouldn't get rid of the germs. What you need to focus on is a whole nother show, but is resiliency, right?

Sean (01:13:26.666)
Yeah.

He's, he's actually growing right now. It's, it's nuts.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:13:51.914)
And in your world, in the mental health world, it's as appropriate as it is in the physical health world. You build, you focus on your resistance. What does that mean? All the stuff that we've talked about, all the stuff that's been true since the beginning of time, right? Eat well, move well, think well. It's not, now does that, again, hey man, I might get sick tomorrow, whatever that means, right? And be laid out for a few days. It's okay, I'm not afraid of it. I'm not hiding from it. I don't wipe down everything in my house all day long. I want germs. I like, I like.

I like germs. They're good for my body to understand its environment. It's normal, it's natural, it's part of the design. And if we think that, I mean, the hygiene hypothesis, one of the things that they reason, they think there's so many allergies right now. This was in a great book, I think, though, Microbial Planets or something, Fear of the Microbial Planet, Templeton, great book. He talks about, you know, the peanut study, where they basically, I think it was in his book, they...

They thought they were gonna help kids by avoiding the peanuts, and then they gave kids peanuts, and I'm overgeneralizing here. Maybe you guys talked about this. And the kids that they said they kept away from it, 16% of them ended up with peanut allergies. The ones that got exposure, it was 4%. It actually was four times worse by following what most people would think to do, keep me away from peanuts. We're all probably old enough on this phone call or this podcast to remember, I used to be able to bring cupcakes to my classroom when I was my birthday when I was in third grade, right?

they weren't banned because I was gonna somebody was gonna have anaphylactic shock from peanut allergies. Where did it come from? It's not genetic. It's not genetic. Matter of fact, I'll throw this out there for some people to kind of give you an example about peanut allergies. It got exposed in one of the courtrooms regarding COVID vaccinations, because there's certain ingredients, not COVID, but JABs. There's certain ingredients that they don't have to list. One of them that they found is that there's peanut oil in certain vaccines that are used sometimes in production. So think about this. When you inject

Memories of peanut oil or peanut oil factors or pieces of peanut oil directly into the bloodstream. What's the body gonna do? The design of the body, the intelligence of the body is gonna build antibodies against that. Right, your first response. So then the second time you get exposed to that, that's when the anaphylactic can happen, right? So flu vaccines, Avian, awful lot of those are made on chicken embryo or they were, they used to be. Now they wanna make it mRNA vaccines. But that's why you see egg allergies many times. These certain vaccines that were grown on chicken embryo and then there's chick embryo inside the vaccine.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:16:16.086)
you get it injected into your body. Now when you ingest it orally, your body says, oh, that's a bad, that's bad. That's why it's linked to autoimmune diseases. Certain vaccines have certain parts of aborted fetal tissue cells in them. This is the fact, it's not my opinion. Okay, so when you inject that into the body, the body creates antibodies against itself. That's why you see this in part, why you can see this dramatic rise in autoimmune disease, body attacking self. It's like, again, how bad does it have to get?

How bad? Like where we go, but here's my fear. If it gets so bad, it's why they don't want control groups in the COVID jab. You saw this happen. They got rid of the control group right away because now they can't have anybody compare. They don't have a group that didn't get it. If everybody's sick, then we all think it's normal. If everybody's depressed and it's normal, and we've normalized disease, and we've normalized dependence on pills, potions and lotions, we've normalized fear, we've normalized run to my doctor.

We've normalized biometric everything. Wear a watch to measure everything. Wear this to measure everything. Hook me up to some system so AI can tell me if I'm healthy or not. And my friends, that's the end. That's a race to the bottom. That ends in nihilistic. We're all sick, we're all dead. They shut our lock our doors because we got germs and we're locked in our house and you know, because we, our social scores over and we can't make, I mean, I'm exaggerating. Well, not exaggerating. I mean, I'm accelerating the timeline, but sorry for the rant there, brother.

Sean (01:17:42.12)
No, that's part of the plan. That's great. I mean, that's Sean, I think that's, listen, I pick on you because you're here. But you, but you represent the mentality of a lot of people. I think I represent 80% of the population. Yeah, I think that's about right. And I still hear it around my that's that 80% in the middle, that the normalization of illness, you know, a lot of people say, Oh, well, my baby's sick, right? Therefore, you're sick.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:17:52.484)
Ha ha

Sean (01:18:11.08)
You say it all the time. We still see people wearing masks. This is part of the mass conditioning. There's a great book and I want to end on this. It's called dissolving illusions. Dr. Ben. Yeah. We still believe we're still taught that vaccinations are probably the greatest medical advancement in human history until you go back and you actually examine some of the science around it. We think that vaccinations are what cured polio. Just.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:18:19.168)
Yeah. Oh man, one of my favorites.

Sean (01:18:40.756)
read Dissolving Illusions and you might begin to get a better sense of how things actually played out. Our health improved when sanitation improved. You know, when the country was faced with, lived in big cities with poor sanitation and poor water, people got sick a lot and we attribute some advancements based on pharmaceuticals or vaccines that were due to other factors. Just read the book. But we have to start...

Um, we have to start working with people to stop some of the communication of things they've learned. And they articulate it as if it's true. No, it's about asking questions. We shouldn't have we shouldn't have anyone wear a mask here. Would you agree? They don't work. And even the CDC came out and said it. But, but people do because they've been conditioned to believe they're protecting somebody, right? I worked at a Japanese company and people wore masks all the time. When they were not feeling well.

So like that was part of, you know, something I was familiar with working in an environment, an office building, and when someone was sick, they would wear masks. Almost as a signal to you, hey, I'm not feeling well. As, yeah, as if you can get me sick, right? But you can get me sick. But what Dr. Ben is saying is that's not how it works. Now, if your immune system is compromised and you're not living healthy,

Dr. Ben Rall (01:19:52.29)
And a virtue signal.

Sean (01:20:02.976)
then I think exposure to that increases the risk that you are gonna get sick. But is that the mentality we wanna have of a resilient and healthy population? And the answer is no, it's not, it's the exact opposite. It creates fear, it creates division, it creates distance. And it leads people to externalize their health. That you make me sick, I am not responsible for my health at all. And that creates more division. And if there is an agenda of population control, which there is, other people benefit

from our divisiveness. Other people benefit through control mechanisms, through instituting of fear for you to rely on them, to be dependent on them, whether it's their product or whether it's their ideas. And the steps that we have to take as a society is to move away from that completely, to disown it completely. I'm a believer we have to get back to small communities. I think the idea of moving into large cities where you own nothing,

and you'll be happy is not the way that it's going to lead to a civilization that takes care of each other. I don't think you should feel guilty for having a family and for having children. I don't think you should feel guilty based on the color of your skin or your gender. It needs to be people taking care of each other in small communities. And to do that, we're going to have to break up.

the large mass hospital based systems, the large medical authorities, and those who are going to benefit from ultimately our own demise. And that's how I'm gonna have to end this podcast. We have to get you back on Dr. Ben.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:21:38.206)
Yeah, well, it really has been an honor. And I was going to say this earlier, and I'd love to be on the show. But the reason I've become such a fan of yours, your show, and I'm like you, Sean, I hear things, I share them with people I think will bless them, right? I just think, man, hey, you should listen to this. I really, there's very few people that are articulating what you guys are articulating right now. There's, you understand it.

in a way that many don't and I'm not trying to blow smoke. It's just really important. We had to go a couple layers deeper, okay? Or we just go, oh, hey, masks are stupid because they don't work, right? Mass didn't work, not because the CDC didn't say they work. They never work. They'll never work and they go against it, right? So we have to go those couple other questions behind it to get to the behavior and understand it. And because of that, that's where I think we really can see

I do believe that there needs to be a resistance. I agree with you, Sean, in the sense that it starts with us, yes, individually, but it must become more than that. There's more of us than we think. And we have to speak up about it, and we have to raise our hand. We have to make ourselves be known. We have to speak out. I'll share this final quote or thought.

So I was reading a book and this little boy was asking his grandpa, he said, hey, grandpa, you know, during the historical, we were talking a little bit about the Nazi, the regime, and he said, hey, grandpa, during that time, you know, like, do you think, you know, were you on the right side of it, right? You know, did you, you know, did you kinda know what was happening? And the grandpa's like, you know, I think I was, I think I understood that it was, and then he's talking about the civil rights movement, and he talked about that time period, and he said,

You know, same question, you know, during that time, did you, you know, he said, Yeah, I think, I think so. And then the third question, the last one, and this is one I would leave our listeners with your listeners, which is what is it that's happening right now? What's the issue of our day? We're dads on this call, right? We're parents, I have to look my kids in the eye and say, when they get a little older, they're asking, Hey, dad, COVID time.

Dr. Ben Rall (01:23:53.078)
When this stuff was all the WEF stuff, the depopulation stuff, all this, like, dad, you were a doctor, what did you do? And if I have to tell them, well, I was afraid that my license might get taken away if I spoke up. I was afraid that, you know, hey, might lose some money so we couldn't have a boat and I couldn't pay for your college and this and that, or I wanted a different house. So I just laid low, below the radar, not ruffling feathers. I won't be able to lay my head down on the pillow.

Right? And so it's all of us doing our part together. I appreciate your guys's, maybe you don't see it this way, but just your courage and bravery in this space. And even to bring a crazy chiropractor on your show and be willing to have this conversation. But it really was an honor, my friends.

Sean (01:24:43.904)
Dr. Ben Rall, we want to thank you for a radically genuine conversation.